Tailored Stories: An Oral History of Savile Row
My experiences are very similar to Melcombes`. An Italian born tailor in his 70s who does everything by himself and delivers beautifully made suit and coats (at least to my untrained eye). It`s a pleasure to visit his tiny (and very unglamorous) shop which obviously has not changed a bit since the 60s and look thorugh old bundles of cloth from long extinct mills. Every time I put on one of his garments which is almost every day I can see the pride in his eyes when he sees that I am pleased with a fitting.
You’re right OH: Savile Row is not what it used to be.
You called out Poole and A&S. You called out the bullshit and commercialization and decline you see. There are other heritage firms as well.
Some of us realized this long ago and left SR.
It seems that the talented makers can leave the established firms if they have a client book and are entrepreneurial. Clients will follow a talented cutter.
It also seems that when striking out on their own, they move upmarket, rather than down, producing fewer but higher quality products while maintaining prices by moving off the Row or out of town.
The large SR firms’ model meanwhile hold the line on their prices by pumping up the volume, the marketing, side line products, and one expects, by cutting corners and there are 100 ways to do that, while producing something “just OK”.
And there are plenty of customers who will accept that level; compromise, or more likely just not know what a good looking suit should look like. There are not that many LL readers. Who wants to invest the time to educate themselves. It’s just easier to walk into a SR and hand yourself over to them.
SR is now a business, less a craft place. Has been for quite a while.
A SR firm could never survive making 10-12 benchmade suits a year.
But a single craftsman making benchmade suits, stitch by stitch, can afford the time to reach for, work for a “perfected” suit.
A small, off-Savile Row maker like Steven Hitchcock makes about 1 suit a week, around 65 a year.
Perhaps the days of producing top notch, top of the line bespoke clothes formerly made by the big SR firms have passed to the small, cost conscious, talented, entrepreneurial tailor. Or a small guild of practicing craftsmen, ala Kent Haste Lachter. Or the family owned Italian firms.
You tell me.
You called out Poole and A&S. You called out the bullshit and commercialization and decline you see. There are other heritage firms as well.
Some of us realized this long ago and left SR.
It seems that the talented makers can leave the established firms if they have a client book and are entrepreneurial. Clients will follow a talented cutter.
It also seems that when striking out on their own, they move upmarket, rather than down, producing fewer but higher quality products while maintaining prices by moving off the Row or out of town.
The large SR firms’ model meanwhile hold the line on their prices by pumping up the volume, the marketing, side line products, and one expects, by cutting corners and there are 100 ways to do that, while producing something “just OK”.
And there are plenty of customers who will accept that level; compromise, or more likely just not know what a good looking suit should look like. There are not that many LL readers. Who wants to invest the time to educate themselves. It’s just easier to walk into a SR and hand yourself over to them.
SR is now a business, less a craft place. Has been for quite a while.
A SR firm could never survive making 10-12 benchmade suits a year.
But a single craftsman making benchmade suits, stitch by stitch, can afford the time to reach for, work for a “perfected” suit.
A small, off-Savile Row maker like Steven Hitchcock makes about 1 suit a week, around 65 a year.
Perhaps the days of producing top notch, top of the line bespoke clothes formerly made by the big SR firms have passed to the small, cost conscious, talented, entrepreneurial tailor. Or a small guild of practicing craftsmen, ala Kent Haste Lachter. Or the family owned Italian firms.
You tell me.
-
culverwood
- Posts: 402
- Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:56 pm
- Location: London
- Contact:
I agree that the Savile Row escapees seem to provide the most sensible choice at the moment.
I am sure that there are some great tailors still there, but when dealing with a small tailor headed by one man or woman he or she is personally responsible for what goes out the door and with a small number of clients word of mouth both good and bad is more important for them.
I am sure that there are some great tailors still there, but when dealing with a small tailor headed by one man or woman he or she is personally responsible for what goes out the door and with a small number of clients word of mouth both good and bad is more important for them.
Those old tailors do not do things because of word of mouth ..good or bad. They do things well because of the great pride they take in their work. They do good work out of respect of trade and the old tailors who taught them. You are third on the list. And I just want to say... all I ask for is a "basic balanced pattern." Ancient handwork ? Whatever. But give me balance! If you want the short little coat...whatever. But don't give me an amateurish off balance pattern! The Used Bentley Salesman in the SR video took a series of expert secret ridiculous mystery measurements that haven't been used since the horse and buggy days and the balance was STILL quite off ...causing a series of ills. Everyone loves to use the term "my cutter". Well that's bad cutting. Just balance the pattern to the individual. That's all I ask. Uppercase and Richard are miles ahead. It's so nice to have their input instead of the bargain hunters.
You are right, Frank. My tailor is 75 and working for more than 60 years now. When he started out as a teenager in Apulia he had to work up to 12 hours or more a day. He still goes to his shop 7 days a week because - as he says - tailoring is not a mere job but his passion. What else can you wish for as a customer?Those old tailors do not do things because of word of mouth ..good or bad. They do things well because of the great pride they take in their work. They do good work out of respect of trade and the old tailors who taught them.
God Bless him. As he knows, it takes 12 hour days for years and years to learn the trade just for the sake of learning the trade. The pride and joy and satisfaction of learning a step. Young Italian tailors would pray to the patron saint of tailors to make them good tailors. Great tailors were the most respected men in small town Italy. They would never ever trade places with anyone.
And you , Sir, Richard3, wear one of their suits. You are part of that small town and all of his pride and all of the old tailors who taught him. And you know that.
And you , Sir, Richard3, wear one of their suits. You are part of that small town and all of his pride and all of the old tailors who taught him. And you know that.
Likewise there is a bespoke tailor that I have used for many years to undertake substantial alterations and repairs of a collection of very old bespoke coats - Fifteen to twenty years ago I decided to search for thrifted SR garments, as I could not afford to bespeak but wanted quality garments.
He is an older chap and has been a tailor all of his adult life. Everything is done in house. There are no fills. You leave the workshop with your garment in a left over carrier bag often emblazened with the name of a top SR tailor (for whom work is outsourced) . He is happy to undertake difficult alterations and creatively think around potential issues. Sometimes he forgots the detailed instructions, but I haven't the heart to go elsewhere. Why? Because every time I visit his thread strewn little workshop, I witness suits being sewn by hand.
He is an older chap and has been a tailor all of his adult life. Everything is done in house. There are no fills. You leave the workshop with your garment in a left over carrier bag often emblazened with the name of a top SR tailor (for whom work is outsourced) . He is happy to undertake difficult alterations and creatively think around potential issues. Sometimes he forgots the detailed instructions, but I haven't the heart to go elsewhere. Why? Because every time I visit his thread strewn little workshop, I witness suits being sewn by hand.
-
Screaminmarlon
- Posts: 920
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:56 am
- Location: Milan, Italy
- Contact:
That’s it!arch wrote:Likewise there is a bespoke tailor that I have used for many years to undertake substantial alterations and repairs of a collection of very old bespoke coats - Fifteen to twenty years ago I decided to search for thrifted SR garments, as I could not afford to bespeak but wanted quality garments.
He is an older chap and has been a tailor all of his adult life. Everything is done in house. There are no fills. You leave the workshop with your garment in a left over carrier bag often emblazened with the name of a top SR tailor (for whom work is outsourced) . He is happy to undertake difficult alterations and creatively think around potential issues. Sometimes he forgots the detailed instructions, but I haven't the heart to go elsewhere. Why? Because every time I visit his thread strewn little workshop, I witness suits being sewn by hand.
Gentlemen,
sometimes, the Savile Row bashing and the single tailor praise go a bit too far or lack substantiation. In an ideal world, working with a single tailor may be a wonderful collaboration between customer and craftsman. In a more real world, the model is also the one most prone to disasters and dissatisfaction - disorganisation, misplaced cloth or buttons, forgotten agreements to name a few.
I have so far worked with a number of tailors in four countries and operating with different business models. I would never glorify a specific model, but focus on establishing a good work relation. I always interview a "tailor" before
starting a collaboration. The "tailor" may be the cutter, the owner of the operation, in one case the coat maker who will be my reliable contact person. I try to be friendly and respectful and not to have unreasonable expectations. I want my tailor to make his life and to be happy working with me. To me, this sets a more solid basis for a good collaboration than fetishising a specific business model.
To some people, working with a smaller operation might be more intimate or more satisfactory. I respect this view. But I have to add that my easiest and most creative collaboration is with one of the bigger tailoring houses in Western Europe. That doesn't make me stop working with the others who have their virtues, charm or specific skills I also want to honour
Cheers, David
sometimes, the Savile Row bashing and the single tailor praise go a bit too far or lack substantiation. In an ideal world, working with a single tailor may be a wonderful collaboration between customer and craftsman. In a more real world, the model is also the one most prone to disasters and dissatisfaction - disorganisation, misplaced cloth or buttons, forgotten agreements to name a few.
I have so far worked with a number of tailors in four countries and operating with different business models. I would never glorify a specific model, but focus on establishing a good work relation. I always interview a "tailor" before
starting a collaboration. The "tailor" may be the cutter, the owner of the operation, in one case the coat maker who will be my reliable contact person. I try to be friendly and respectful and not to have unreasonable expectations. I want my tailor to make his life and to be happy working with me. To me, this sets a more solid basis for a good collaboration than fetishising a specific business model.
To some people, working with a smaller operation might be more intimate or more satisfactory. I respect this view. But I have to add that my easiest and most creative collaboration is with one of the bigger tailoring houses in Western Europe. That doesn't make me stop working with the others who have their virtues, charm or specific skills I also want to honour
Cheers, David
" Lilies of fester smell far worse than weeds"
I do believe you have missed the point , David
Henry Poole were my favorite suits, hands down.
A&S and Huntsman made some of the most beautiful suits in the world.
Perhaps you should reread.
A&S did sleeves and shoulders by hand. BY HAND.
I idolized these houses.
"Interview the tailor" ? Lost buttons ?
Hmmm :D
I do believe you have missed the point , David
Henry Poole were my favorite suits, hands down.
A&S and Huntsman made some of the most beautiful suits in the world.
Perhaps you should reread.
A&S did sleeves and shoulders by hand. BY HAND.
I idolized these houses.
"Interview the tailor" ? Lost buttons ?
Hmmm :D
Last edited by old henry on Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Big firms, especially some on SR, have real challenges, as low margin businesses, with massive fixed costs: London sized rents, marketing, employee costs in salary and government contributions, accounting, pensions, training, insurance, raw materials, taxes and so on and so forth.
With this mass of costs around their necks, time being money, some firms think they have to get garments in and out as quickly and inexpensively as possible given the prices they charge. So they have industrialized their methods.
But costs are not the only problem: many big firms failed to invest in training early on and are finding their talent pool aging and inadequate to meet their own lofty expectations, and image. And strong competitive pressure from luxury brands, adds more trouble to the already difficult mix tempting firms to mimic the luxury leaders.
So these firms have had to industrialize their methods, and diversify their offering to include industrial clothing, RTW and knickknacks. Few of you are old enough to know how incomprehensible these realities would have been to the tenants of the old Savile Row. Grown men would faint in the streets when they weren’t rolling in their graves if they knew what was afoot on their hallowed grounds
And the greatest and most virulent criticism of big firms cutting corners I have ever heard, outside of luxury brand competitors like Giorgio Armani and Tom Ford, has come from Savile Row itself. Mr Hitchcock made it clear in the interview I recorded with him a decade ago that the industrialization of the Row was “a great shame.” Shame. All of you, take a moment, look up the word “Shame” in the dictionary.
A decade or so ago I was invited to attend a regularly occurring meeting, a luncheon held by the old cadre of SR tailors. I got to go if I promised to be discrete about what I heard there. Well all I’ll say is that even fifteen years ago the real old guys were launching nuclear broadsides at management for the way they were handling what these men considered their heritage. Yeah.
Back in those days, when the LL was helping to drive the revival of Savile Row, I consulted the big firms and delivered a good solid dose of “tough love.” My counsel was ignored.
My tough love today is still love.
Independent tailors may not be nirvana, but often they have low fixed costs and are able to take the “time” to do things in traditional time honored ways. In over forty years of working with dozens of them in seven or eight countries*, except for an unusual stroke of bad luck in Naples, I have never had a single problem. And frankly speaking, even if I had had such problems, they would have been overlooked instantly in the big picture of things to the extent that the tailor was delivering honest as opposed to shameful work.
In my universe, the clothes are almost irrelevant as compared to the real art for non-tailors, dressing. But I have always been able to understand and have empathy for the irritation and even anger that can boil in a traditional tailor’s vein when he or she see their craft shamed.
Look the truth is neither garlanded praise, bitter critique or a fetich..it is simply the truth.
Cheers
PS....Shame: “a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety.”
*USA, UK, Ireland, France, Italy, Spain, Romania…Sicily ”
With this mass of costs around their necks, time being money, some firms think they have to get garments in and out as quickly and inexpensively as possible given the prices they charge. So they have industrialized their methods.
But costs are not the only problem: many big firms failed to invest in training early on and are finding their talent pool aging and inadequate to meet their own lofty expectations, and image. And strong competitive pressure from luxury brands, adds more trouble to the already difficult mix tempting firms to mimic the luxury leaders.
So these firms have had to industrialize their methods, and diversify their offering to include industrial clothing, RTW and knickknacks. Few of you are old enough to know how incomprehensible these realities would have been to the tenants of the old Savile Row. Grown men would faint in the streets when they weren’t rolling in their graves if they knew what was afoot on their hallowed grounds
And the greatest and most virulent criticism of big firms cutting corners I have ever heard, outside of luxury brand competitors like Giorgio Armani and Tom Ford, has come from Savile Row itself. Mr Hitchcock made it clear in the interview I recorded with him a decade ago that the industrialization of the Row was “a great shame.” Shame. All of you, take a moment, look up the word “Shame” in the dictionary.
A decade or so ago I was invited to attend a regularly occurring meeting, a luncheon held by the old cadre of SR tailors. I got to go if I promised to be discrete about what I heard there. Well all I’ll say is that even fifteen years ago the real old guys were launching nuclear broadsides at management for the way they were handling what these men considered their heritage. Yeah.
Back in those days, when the LL was helping to drive the revival of Savile Row, I consulted the big firms and delivered a good solid dose of “tough love.” My counsel was ignored.
My tough love today is still love.
Independent tailors may not be nirvana, but often they have low fixed costs and are able to take the “time” to do things in traditional time honored ways. In over forty years of working with dozens of them in seven or eight countries*, except for an unusual stroke of bad luck in Naples, I have never had a single problem. And frankly speaking, even if I had had such problems, they would have been overlooked instantly in the big picture of things to the extent that the tailor was delivering honest as opposed to shameful work.
In my universe, the clothes are almost irrelevant as compared to the real art for non-tailors, dressing. But I have always been able to understand and have empathy for the irritation and even anger that can boil in a traditional tailor’s vein when he or she see their craft shamed.
Look the truth is neither garlanded praise, bitter critique or a fetich..it is simply the truth.
Cheers
PS....Shame: “a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety.”
*USA, UK, Ireland, France, Italy, Spain, Romania…Sicily
”I'm with davidhuh in this matter. I started with a small tailor who closed his shop when he was 80. I tried several options in London (not SR). I remember collecting a finished jacket after 2 fittings. Its sleeves were sewn so tight that I could hardly lift my arms up. According to the cutter, it was the tailor's fault 
I had never-ever dreamt of going to SR but that's where I ended up. And it's worth every penny - just my 2 cents. It's a smaller operations with a honest cutter. Everyone who's interested can step into that tailoring shop and the cutter at age 70 will show you suits, jackets and trousers in the making at that moment, for (as he says) "we have nothing to hide, it's all craftsmanship"
Gieves&Hawkes may have become more MTM but they still have an exquisite bespoke department.
Besides, I would call Steven Hitchcock very much part of Savile Row, just like Meyer&Mortimer, M.Plews, Kent-Haste-Lachter etc. None of these gentlemen offer MTM (whereas for instance Steed does meanwhile). I think Hitchcock used to have a blog called "the Savile Row tailor"
E.g. John Davis who's been 50 years on the Row (from former Tobias Tailors) taught his daughter Roxie to become a tailor, she finished her apprenticeship a couple of months ago and works for S. Hitchcock.
There are British, Swiss, Dutch, Persian youngsters that moved to London years ago only to become a tailor. They are proud of their craftsmanship and show it to the world on their Instagram profiles.
E.g. this young lady, working as a coat maker for G & H: https://www.instagram.com/jennie_adamson/?hl=us
Or this young coat maker for M. Sedwell amongst others: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/alwbespoke/
A coat maker for E.Sexton: https://www.instagram.com/claire__emerson/
Then there's the golden shears' competition for young tailors and cutters by the SR bespoke Association.
I had never-ever dreamt of going to SR but that's where I ended up. And it's worth every penny - just my 2 cents. It's a smaller operations with a honest cutter. Everyone who's interested can step into that tailoring shop and the cutter at age 70 will show you suits, jackets and trousers in the making at that moment, for (as he says) "we have nothing to hide, it's all craftsmanship"
I see. But perhaps you should visit it again? It's is not that black-white either.uppercase wrote:You’re right OH: Savile Row is not what it used to be.
You called out Poole and A&S. You called out the bullshit and commercialization and decline you see. There are other heritage firms as well. Some of us realized this long ago and left SR.
Gieves&Hawkes may have become more MTM but they still have an exquisite bespoke department.
Besides, I would call Steven Hitchcock very much part of Savile Row, just like Meyer&Mortimer, M.Plews, Kent-Haste-Lachter etc. None of these gentlemen offer MTM (whereas for instance Steed does meanwhile). I think Hitchcock used to have a blog called "the Savile Row tailor"
Your efforts were not in vain. There's a whole generation of young, talented and dedicated tailors that have taken up the torch from the old generation that was complaining back then.alden wrote: A decade or so ago (...) Back in those days, when the LL was helping to drive the revival of Savile Row, I consulted the big firms and delivered a good solid dose of “tough love.” My counsel was ignored.
E.g. John Davis who's been 50 years on the Row (from former Tobias Tailors) taught his daughter Roxie to become a tailor, she finished her apprenticeship a couple of months ago and works for S. Hitchcock.
There are British, Swiss, Dutch, Persian youngsters that moved to London years ago only to become a tailor. They are proud of their craftsmanship and show it to the world on their Instagram profiles.
E.g. this young lady, working as a coat maker for G & H: https://www.instagram.com/jennie_adamson/?hl=us
Or this young coat maker for M. Sedwell amongst others: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/alwbespoke/
A coat maker for E.Sexton: https://www.instagram.com/claire__emerson/
Then there's the golden shears' competition for young tailors and cutters by the SR bespoke Association.
Last edited by Frans on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Frans
Thanks for your views on the SR of today. You know I notice that nearly all the excellent tailors you mention, most of whom I know very well, are small independent tailors who happen to work in or around SR. When we speak of the "big" houses, there are four or five of them who take up a big part of the Row.
Malcolm Plews and his like are throw backs to another era and they are treasures. But they are small, independent tailor shops, sole proprietorships with tiny shops on the Row. If you picked them up and put them into a back street of Cumbria, Milan or Sicily, they would be the kind of tailors some of us frequent.
One day I will write down the advice and counsel I gave to the Row back then. I am sure many of you would recognize the things I pointed out. And the imperative for training was chief among my concerns; and I have seen an uptick of investment and interest in forming new talent but in my humble opinion, it is not nearly enough. It is not even a drop in the Ocean, it is a molecule in the Ocean.
Let me clear one thing up. I am not at all opposed to MTM. Not in the least. I have only two qualifications to this statement. Firstly, the MTM and Benchmade operations and products need to be clearly and honestly distinguished and not blend into one (as often happens.) Secondly, the MTM has to fit; and in order for it to fit, it has to be executed by a real tailor who knows the laws of tailoring physics. This rarely if ever is the case. So most MTM looks like hell. There I said it.
Frankly speaking, I love the Row. I always have. My very first experiences took place there and are mixed with wonderful memories of my grandfather and the times we spent there together. Walking down that street and in the general area is a treat that no man should ever deny himself. It still takes hold of me.
And as is often the case, people who love things can become very concerned when the object of their passion is in danger, threatened or debased. Savile Row is all of these. Rose colored glasses are in fashion now. I won't wear them.
Cheers
Thanks for your views on the SR of today. You know I notice that nearly all the excellent tailors you mention, most of whom I know very well, are small independent tailors who happen to work in or around SR. When we speak of the "big" houses, there are four or five of them who take up a big part of the Row.
Malcolm Plews and his like are throw backs to another era and they are treasures. But they are small, independent tailor shops, sole proprietorships with tiny shops on the Row. If you picked them up and put them into a back street of Cumbria, Milan or Sicily, they would be the kind of tailors some of us frequent.
One day I will write down the advice and counsel I gave to the Row back then. I am sure many of you would recognize the things I pointed out. And the imperative for training was chief among my concerns; and I have seen an uptick of investment and interest in forming new talent but in my humble opinion, it is not nearly enough. It is not even a drop in the Ocean, it is a molecule in the Ocean.
Let me clear one thing up. I am not at all opposed to MTM. Not in the least. I have only two qualifications to this statement. Firstly, the MTM and Benchmade operations and products need to be clearly and honestly distinguished and not blend into one (as often happens.) Secondly, the MTM has to fit; and in order for it to fit, it has to be executed by a real tailor who knows the laws of tailoring physics. This rarely if ever is the case. So most MTM looks like hell. There I said it.
Frankly speaking, I love the Row. I always have. My very first experiences took place there and are mixed with wonderful memories of my grandfather and the times we spent there together. Walking down that street and in the general area is a treat that no man should ever deny himself. It still takes hold of me.
And as is often the case, people who love things can become very concerned when the object of their passion is in danger, threatened or debased. Savile Row is all of these. Rose colored glasses are in fashion now. I won't wear them.
Cheers
Thank you Franz. That's encouraging. Jennie Adamson does really beautiful work. Real hand work. Also, I want to say again , all the old world handwork and style is wasted if the pattern does not work. I would rather have a well fitted ,well balanced MTM than an off balance, I'll fitting coat with a hiking front from SR or off SR.
-
- Information
-
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests