Ask a Neapolitan

[kamil]

I am considering having the Perfect Spring Coat cloth made up as follows:
- quarter-lined
- little or no shoulder padding
- patch pockets
The desired result is a piece of clothing that looks like a relaxed jacket but wears more like a cardigan, yet without clinging too much to the shirt.
Fellow-members' feedback and advice would be most appreciated.

[Concordia]

Question for those with better memories: what is the deal with VAT when shipped to a London tailor? If they export the finished product does it get implicitly refunded then? Or is it better to have the tailor make the purchase to record VAT himself?

[Concordia]

I am considering having the Perfect Spring Coat cloth made up as follows:
- quarter-lined
- little or no shoulder padding
- patch pockets
The desired result is a piece of clothing that looks like a relaxed jacket but wears more like a cardigan, yet without clinging too much to the shirt.
Fellow-members' feedback and advice would be most appreciated.

All very much in the LL fashion, and most likely a decent fit for this cloth-- although I could see a crisper structured (Milanese? WWChan? Conventional SR?) making a lot of sense as well.

[hectorm]

... a piece of clothing that looks like a relaxed jacket but wears more like a cardigan...

Indeed a valid aspiration, but a balance so difficult to achieve from the start.
A well cut bespoke jacket in an interesting rich cloth -no matter how relaxed its design and comfortable on the owner- will always wear much more elegant and forbidding than a knit cardigan. And that´s the point.
Maybe after 10 years of daily companionship and non-fake elbow pads, you´ll have something approaching that.

[andy57]

I am considering having the Perfect Spring Coat cloth made up as follows:
- quarter-lined
- little or no shoulder padding
- patch pockets
The desired result is a piece of clothing that looks like a relaxed jacket but wears more like a cardigan, yet without clinging too much to the shirt.
Fellow-members' feedback and advice would be most appreciated.

My opinion is that would be a waste of an excellent cloth. If you want a cardigan, buy a cardigan.

[andy57]

Question for those with better memories: what is the deal with VAT when shipped to a London tailor? If they export the finished product does it get implicitly refunded then? Or is it better to have the tailor make the purchase to record VAT himself?

When I've sent cloth to Steed, the problem hasn't been VAT (as far as I know), but import duties going through Customs. Now it's possible that those duties are, in fact, VAT, but it is billed to the recipient (or at least Steed has had to pay, as I, as the sender, receive no notification whatsoever of the package's fate). But when the finished item is exported back to me, there is no VAT charged. There can then be problems if the garment has to be sent back and forth for alteration as Her Majesty's Customs might very well attempt to extract more duty upon the package's entry into the UK.

It's gotten to the point now where I no longer am prepared to ship cloth back to the UK. Even more than the cost of duty, the amount of time the package can languish in Customs is ridiculous. If I have a cloth I want Steed to make up I will hand-carry it back to London on my next visit. If I'm able to decide ahead of time, I'll have Lovat send LL cloth directly to Steed and cloth that isn't destined for Steed to me, as happened yesterday with the latest round of cloth deliveries.

[kamil]

My opinion is that would be a waste of an excellent cloth. If you want a cardigan, buy a cardigan.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I don't want a cardigan but a jacket with little structure, and wonder whether this cloth, given its properties (weight, structure, hand, design, etc.) lends itself to it.

[Screaminmarlon]

Next time ask a Neapolitan

[dfoverdx2]

I am considering having the Perfect Spring Coat cloth made up as follows:
- quarter-lined
- little or no shoulder padding
- patch pockets
The desired result is a piece of clothing that looks like a relaxed jacket but wears more like a cardigan, yet without clinging too much to the shirt.
Fellow-members' feedback and advice would be most appreciated.

kamil,
you can do the coat quarterly lined which is fine, after all it's rather a personal choice. For shoulder padding; if your tailor is able to make a good fit without shoulder pad frankly there's no reason to add padding to this one or any of your coat...
patch pockets are also personal choice.
As screaminmarlon mentions, what you are looking is Neapolitan style coat but it's not actually related just shoulder padding but overall inner canvas structure. If your tailor is not used to make soft Neapolitan style coat then i think it's good to find a Neapolitan tailor. As i said you are not going to get a soft cardigan like coat just by removing shoulder padding. You need to soften everything inside.

[davidhuh]

I am considering having the Perfect Spring Coat cloth made up as follows:
- quarter-lined
- little or no shoulder padding
- patch pockets
The desired result is a piece of clothing that looks like a relaxed jacket but wears more like a cardigan, yet without clinging too much to the shirt.
Fellow-members' feedback and advice would be most appreciated.

Dear Kamil,

my question would be - do you have a tailor who is familiar & happy to make a coat with an ultra light construction, yes or no?

If yes, go for it, if not, you risk having an unsatisfactory result, achieved by forcing a craftsman to do something he is not familiar with. In other words: if Bocuse is your tailor, you don't order pizza

Cheers, David

[hectorm]

...what you are looking is Neapolitan style coat but it's not actually related just shoulder padding but overall inner canvas structure. If your tailor is not used to make soft Neapolitan style coat then i think it's good to find a Neapolitan tailor. You are not going to get a soft cardigan like coat just by removing shoulder padding. You need to soften everything inside.

I did not notice when the title of this thread changed to Ask a Neapolitan (and wasn't even aware that such a thing was possible) but it's totally justified. Of course, Ask a Neapolitan but ask one who is knowledgeable in matters sartorial.

I don't want a cardigan but a jacket with little structure, and wonder whether this cloth, given its properties (weight, structure, hand, design, etc.) lends itself to it.

What characterizes the Neapolitan jacket style is not the weight, structure, hand or design of the cloth. You can have that style in a solid linen or a patterned tweed, and almost anything in between. What makes the quintessential "giacca napoletana" is its skillful soft construction and its specific elements of design. Little canvas, no padding, quarter lining, unlined sleeves, soft stitches, spala camiccia shoulders, barchetta breast pocket, pignata patch pockets, "kissing" cuff buttons, 3 roll 2 in a SB, etc.
Another thing: while a well crafted Neapolitan jacket is indeed a beauty to watch and a marvel to fondle, it might not always be to the advantage of the wearer's style.

[Costi]

Assuming you know your tailor and your tailor knows you, I see no impediment.
If you know him, then you know what to ask him to do differently.
If he knows you, then he will likely interpret your instructions to your satisfaction.

If he's not Neapolitan, don't ask for a Neapolitan coat.
If he is Neapolitan, ask him how he would make your coat, listen carefully, raise questions if there is anything you don't understand, then say: "Yes, this it!".
Be aware that you will find more flavours of Neapolitan coats than of rum baba.

I think your project sounds good and I have most of my coats made with this type and detail level of instruction. You have to inspire your tailor (or at least convey your inspiration to him). If you fail, you will end up micromanaging him. Some will hate it and fight it. Others will oblige, but the result will lack that organic harmony that comes out of a convinced and sure hand.
I paint the picture in wide strokes and make sure the tailor understands and assents. Then I let him do his work.
Of course, it was not always like that...

[kamil]

Thank you all very much for your helpful remarks. You did give me some food for thought!

[ay329]

Kamil, did you decide if you will make it a shawl cardigan?

[kamil]

Kamil, did you decide if you will make it a shawl cardigan?

LOL, not quite. It will eventually be a fully-structured jacket, and the only detail not decided yet is the pockets. Currently, I am leaning towards flap pockets after all but haven't made up my mind yet.