Buttons for Dress Shirts

[rlambert]

What are the forum’s thoughts on the best buttons and button sources for dress shirts?

My long time shirt maker Freddy Vandecasteele recently retired. I liked Freddy’s standard buttons, which were shell, bright white but not too shiny/flashy, and relatively thin. They were also the same buttons seen on Jack Taylor’s distinctive house style of shirts, which is not surprising given that Freddy was the one actually making them.

Since Freddy’s retirement, after trying several other Southern California based shirt makers, the tailor I have found to produce the best fitting shirt is having difficulty locating buttons similar to the ones that Freddy used. This in turn has led me on a quest to locate the ideal dress shirt button.
I know that Freddy used to buy his buttons from Head Crown in Hong Kong, and I have an email into him to see if he recalls the model number of the ones he used to purchase. But, what are the forums thoughts on the ideal buttons for dress shirts and the best source to purchase them?

[davidhuh]

Dear Rlambert,

try Richard James Weldon, https://www.richardjamesweldon.com

Shirt buttons should not be too thin, to avoid breaking, and not too thick because this is not very elegant. Your shirt maker will know.

Cheers, David

[alden]

I have always bought my shirt buttons here:

http://www.boutons-mercier.com/

It is the same firm all the top makers including, I imagine, Charvet use for their buttons.

Cheers

[rlambert]

Michael – Thank you for the Fernand Mercier recommendation. The Nacre 510 T Pal shown below looks like a classic dress shirt button. But, do you know what size of buttons in millimeters to purchase for the different elements of the shirt, such as the front of the shirt, the flaps of the collar if buttoned down, and the smaller button if applicable below the cuff?

Also, what are your thoughts about the size of the button that closes the collar around the neck? Should this be the same size as the rest of the buttons along the front of the shirt? Or, should it be slightly smaller than the buttons used to close the shirt front? In looking at my existing shirts, I appear to have some that were made each of these ways. My initial thought is that the slightly smaller button to close the collar gives the shirt more balance.

[alden]

Its been ages since I bought buttons but I seem to recall to use the 11mm for everything and the 9mm for button downs.

[hectorm]

what are your thoughts about the size of the button that closes the collar around the neck? Should this be the same size as the rest of the buttons along the front of the shirt? Or, should it be slightly smaller than the buttons used to close the shirt front?

If you -like me- commission your shirts with substantial tie space you'll have good room for the larger buttons and I think it will be easier on your hands. I always struggle a little bit more with the small ones (buttons and buttonholes) at the end of the collar on my button downs (not to mention the couple of hidden tab ones that I own).
And Merry Christmas to you all!

[rlambert]

I spoke to Freddy Vandecasteele, and he said that his standard button sizes were 16 lignes on a button down collar and 18 lignes for everything else.

Apparently a ligne is a historic French unit of length that was first used by German button makers in the 9th century to measure the diameter of a button. 16 lignes equates to approximately 11.6 millimeters and 18 lignes equates to approximately 10.5 millimeters.

Freddy also said that his thinner buttons used on most shirts were 2.2 millimeters. But, for his clients that preferred a thicker button, he would often use 3.5 millimeters.

[elegant1]

Not to hijack this thread, but I must comment that Freddy made my dress shirts as well and he is very much missed! I hope he is well, back in his native land of Belgium!

[rlambert]

Not to hijack this thread, but I must comment that Freddy made my dress shirts as well and he is very much missed! I hope he is well, back in his native land of Belgium!

When I spoke to Freddy, had just returned from Belgium. He says he loves retirement and has been traveling a lot.

[Cufflink79]

I enjoy the thick MOP buttons on my Robert Talbott shirts.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[PeteK]

Not to hijack this thread, but I must comment that Freddy made my dress shirts as well and he is very much missed! I hope he is well, back in his native land of Belgium!

When I spoke to Freddy, had just returned from Belgium. He says he loves retirement and has been traveling a lot.

I've been lurking here for a while, but when I saw a post about Freddy, I just had to respond! Freddy made many shirts for me over the last few years (and graciously tolerated my unusual requests like the popover I asked for, his first request for one since the 70's) and I miss him very much since he retired. The last time I spoke with him he was in Mexico on vacation. It sounds like he's doing a pretty good job enjoying his retirement.

I'm not sure who you've worked with since his retirement, but I've had some shirts made by the gentleman who Freddy recommended and who apprenticed under Freddy, Andrew Toth. Apparently Freddy sold his patterns to Andrew. While I was initially anxious about starting over again with someone new, I'm really happy with Andrew's work. While he's still somewhat new at this, Andrew is refreshingly excited about the business and he's making great shirts. I'd highly recommend him to any of Freddy's former customers who might be holding off to see how he does.

[hectorm]

what are your thoughts about the size of the button that closes the collar around the neck? Should this be the same size as the rest of the buttons along the front of the shirt? Or, should it be slightly smaller than the buttons used to close the shirt front?

Since we are fine tuning here, and shirt buttons are invisible most of the time, let me say that much more relevant than worrying over a 1 mm difference in the size of your dress shirt buttons, should be considering the proper shanking for those buttons. It´s the right length of the thread shank what would allow for an easier (un)buttoning and get rid of the tension on the cloth provoked by flush sewn buttons (a sure tell-tale of a poorly -probably machine finished- constructed shirt).

[davidhuh]

Since we are fine tuning here, and shirt buttons are invisible most of the time, let me say that much more relevant than worrying over a 1 mm difference in the size of your dress shirt buttons, should be considering the proper shanking for those buttons.

Gentlemen, I could not agree more

Cheers, David

[ks]

Does the rest of the forum agree with DavidHuh's comment that too thick is not very elegant?

Because I've always coveted these buttons shown on an Anna Matuozzo shirt. http://www.styleforum.net/t/36514/folde ... t-p0rn/465 (you need to scroll down to post 469 by (it looks like) MaFooFan, but I'm not a regular on that forum, so I'm not exactly sure which post is by whom.)

Those button are super thick, but I think they are quite elegant. I wonder what a dry cleaner would do to them though.

[hectorm]

Does the rest of the forum agree with DavidHuh's comment that too thick is not very elegant?

I do agree with David. If it´s too thick, as you ask in your question, of course it´s not very elegant.
The question for me would be: how thick is very thick and how thick is too thick?
If you put side by side two folded dress shirts (same color, style, etc.) I believe the one with "normal" buttons will look a bit more elegant than the one with the stubby buttons. Particularly if it´s a shirt without placket.
But shirt buttons are invisible most of the time. And extra thick buttons might just be a shirtmaker´s signature or a way of reassuring a bespoke customer that his seven hundred dollar shirt is "different".
In the case of that specific Ana Mattuozzo shirt, the buttons are borderline hockey pucks and -unless the owner had stubby fingers too- they add nothing to the convenience of fastening the collar (which, by the way, is too little for supporting -not one- but two of those).