Traditional tweed suit project

[hectorm]

Dear Mr. Hillier,
collar extensions are tricky indeed. One has to be willing to accept an asymmetrical notch in order to have a substantial one that really works. At the same time, the lapels have to be wide enough to allow for a good overlap.
Sometimes a simple button under the right lapel in combination with your left lapel buttonhole does the trick (not as neat but effective nevertheless).
Button tabs like those in the picture (I have a few in peacoats and toggle coats) do work well provided -again- the lapels overlap generously and the collar sits together at front when turned up. They have the minor disadvantage of being a loose piece that you may fumble or get lost.
Thank you for sharing the progress on your tweed suit project. It´s coming very fine.

[Mr Hillier]

collar extensions are tricky indeed

Yes, it seems so. Quite a number of tab collars are apparently there simply for decoration. Anyway, I do actually prefer the appearance of the lapels without the tab, so all is good.

I do think the suit is coming along fine. I've learnt much more from this suit than from any other. This one has taken on a life of its own, and after a certain point I've just let it do its own thing.

Probably the final fitting tomorrow, although last time there was only one sleeve on, so I've got a feeling that the sleeves will need adjusting at the very least! Let's see.

[Mr Hillier]

Dear Members,

Today was the day! I collected my suit at 12 noon.

I'm very grateful for the advice of the members, I would have had a completely different suit had I not discussed it here.

I will post a comprehensive photo-report of the suit, but for now, just some initial impressions and thoughts.

Overall, I like the suit a lot. As time went on, it got simpler and simpler, and I think it is all the better for that. There are a few aspects I'm unsure of, but we'll see how a bit of wear and time makes things look.

First of, the fit will take a little getting used to.

If you are going to be serious about being outdoors, having pockets and the jacket cut lare enough for a good wool sweater is essential

I took this advice to heart, and had the jacket cut to go over what I would describe as a heavy wool sweater. Obviously, as our friend stated, this is essential for a serious outdoor garment. This means that without the sweater, the jacket is definitely on the large side. It seems that it may feel much larger than it looks, but there really is a lot of room in there. The advantage of course is that the size and the action back mean that even with a heavy sweater underneath, there is plenty of freedom of movement.

In contrast, the trousers are definitely snug. It seems that my waistline has been expanding at the rate of 3/4" a week for the past several weeks, and it has been hard for the tailor to keep up. After careful deliberation, the waistline was left snug, as it is very likely my waistline will decrease again, as it usually does in the spring.

Of course, both of these sizing issues are details, and can be adjusted in the future. The jacket will never be really snug, but I believe that if I wanted the sleeves, waist and back taken in a little at some point in the future this would be possible.

On to a few features which were heavily discussed and which may interest the members:

Envelope pocket



I think the 'patch' approach has worked well. The tailor thought that a large welted opening in the lining would introduce weakness, and I see the merit of that argument. I also like the simplicity of this solution. As you can see, an essential piece of outdoor kit, a magazine, fits perfectly.

Tab Collar





As with the envelope pocket, I'm totally happy with the way this has turned out. I still have a simple clean lapel outline, but it can also fasten. Again, simplicity wins. The fit is snug and may need tweaking, but the beauty of it is that all that needs moving are buttons, or at the worst, a slightly longer tab could be made up.

One last thing out of interest:




I know some members (and tailors) love to see matching patterns or stripes. How about the left-right symmetry of the shoulder seams here? The lack of symmetry doesn't bother me in the slightest. [edited to clarify in the light of Couch's comment below]

[couch]

If you're talking about the shoulder seam, it's normal not to match the pattern there. The back needs to have extra fullness to cover the curves over the shoulder and blades, which means a longer edge of cloth has to join a shorter edge on the front piece at this seam. This can be done one of two ways; most usual is for the tailor to full (ease in) the rear edge, working the cloth in by compressing it as he hand sews the seam. Some shrinking first with the iron may also be possible. Obviously this compression means the pattern repeat will now differ in width at this edge from that on the fronts. The other method is to cut the back piece more or less the same width as the front, or achieve the same effect by local shrinking, and stretch the !@#$ out of the back with the iron. Depending on how much convexity has to be created in the back and how much elasticity can be got from the cloth, this may just be possible. More often coatmakers full and compress the rear edge at the seam, as well as introducing some moderate stretching/shaping with the iron over the blades. On women's jackets and for some men with very forward-curving shoulders, you sometimes see vertical darts on each side of the back perpendicular to the shoulder seam, somewhere between the sleevehead and the center back, but this is an extreme way to accommodate the difference in fullness and probably a last resort for an elegant man's jacket.

As you can imagine, it takes much skill to full or ease in a substantial amount of cloth while sewing the shoulder seam and not have a bulky ridge or slightly puckered result, or one in which the pattern of the back piece is visibly distorted. I suspect skill with the iron during the process helps here. This is one of the reasons the shoulder seam in the 1930s suit (in a fairly open-weave cloth) reposted from Vox by Minh commands attention--because the seam has achieved a level and uniformity, with little evidence of stitch placement, not often seen. Of course, years of shaping to the wearer and careful pressing, in addition to fine sewing, no doubt also have helped that jacket achieve its sense of organic unity.

Jeffery Diduch has a good discussion of fulling and stretching on his blog in the context of cloth grain and sleeve caps, but applicable to shoulder-seam pattern matching as well.

[Mr Hillier]

If you're talking about the shoulder seam, it's normal not to match the pattern there

Dear Couch,

Thank you for your explanation.

On review, I realise my question was not drafted clearly; I refer to the difference between the left and right, not the matching of the stripes front to back at the shoulder seam. As you say, the stripes do not usually match front to back on the shoulder due to the fullness required in the back. However, the left and right sides are often (usually?) symmetrical, and I wondered what the members view of the asymmetrical shoulder seams here was.

[couch]

Right, sorry. Not a large difference it seems to me. Do you know whether your tailor noted your figuration to have one shoulder longer, lower, or pitched more forward than the other? Or one blade more prominent than the other? That might explain this amount of difference, and a good fit that allows the jacket to lay properly trumps perfect symmetry in my view. Though it may be just an artifact of folding for the photos, the proper right shoulder seam looks to have a distinct forward bend about halfway along compared to a more straight seam on the proper left side. If that's true, it suggests the cutter and tailor may be allowing for some asymmetry in your figuration. In any case, as you say it's not likely to be noticeable in wearing if the jacket looks reasonably balanced from the rear.

This last set of photos makes the cloth look quite luscious, by the way.

[Mr Hillier]

Dear Couch,

the proper right shoulder seam looks to have a distinct forward bend about halfway along compared to a more straight seam on the proper left side.

On examination, you are right, the right shoulder seam does have a bend in it. In fact the left shoulder seam bends the other way slightly. However, I don't think there is any great difference between my shoulders, so I think it is just the way things have turned out. The last shoulder seam which the gentleman in question constructed for me didn't have the same bend.

This last set of photos makes the cloth look quite luscious, by the way.

Yes they do! This is the kind of cloth which gets more and more fascinating the more one looks at it. I see the future, and it is tweed.

[hectorm]

This last set of photos makes the cloth look quite luscious

And great choice of buttons!

Congratulations Mr. Hillier on your finished project. I´m glad to see that you found our well-meaning advice at the LL useful.
And thank you couch for brilliant posts on shoulder and back construction.

[Mr Hillier]

And great choice of buttons!

Congratulations Mr. Hillier on your finished project. I´m glad to see that you found our well-meaning advice at the LL useful.

The buttons are nice. A bit of a shame that there are plastic buttons on the trousers... oops.

The advice was very useful, god knows where I would have ended up without it. A heartfelt thank you to the Members!

And it is great that the suit is finished... or is it finished?

Let's talk about fit. I've worn the suit for a day today, and I think there may be one or two little tweaks necessary. I won't say what they are for now, at least one can be seen in the photos, have a look and see what you think. Isn't it hard to find out what you really think of a suit in front of a tailor's mirror? I need at least a day on my own with a new suit to evaluate it, and preferably a week.

Anyway, I'd be very interested to hear the opinions of the Members.









The fit of the jacket is quite loose, both around the waist and in the arms. It is amazing how it feels so much bigger than it looks.

I wore it today at about 2˚c with the waistcoat and no topcoat. I was outside for an hour in total, and it was on the cool side but fine. With a proper base layer and a sweater instead of the waistcoat, this suit will cope with almost any British cold I would think. And I'm very glad I didn't line the trousers!

[alden]

Congratulations Mr Hillier! Thanks to you for sharing this experience with us.

The suit looks great. I am sure you are going to enjoy it for many years to come. Now you need to go out and thrash it about to get it worn in.
These suits never look right until a crust of patina is on them. Wear it well!

Cheers

Michael

[hectorm]

Anyway, I'd be very interested to hear the opinions of the Members.

It looks very, very nice. You can tell the suit was made especially for you, and you look extremely at ease in it. Congrats!
A minor point: did you tuck the pocket flaps in? I think that a jacket with action back and half-belt would look more balanced showing its flaps in front. Patch, bellow or pleated pockets are all more informal and "country". While flaps are kind of neutral. But jetted pockets are more related to a formal and tailored coat. What´s the story behind?

[couch]

Agreed--great result, especially for a first tweed suit. I'm looking for the tweaks you say might be needed. Photos are notoriously unreliable . . . . In the pictures, the proper left sleeve, hip pocket, and lapel notch are all a bit lower than on the right. But since they're all that way, and the button point and overall balance look good, let's check the back. There, the center seam is shifted a little to the left and you're standing with the left shoulder down slightly. That suggests that the jacket's fine and it's just not seated quite symmetrically. Shrug it around a little to the right at the neck and it should be fine. This kind of thing is especially likely to happen with a jacket cut loosely enough to accommodate a jumper. As Michael says, when you've worn it enough to shape to your body, it will naturally seat itself correctly.

Likewise in the rear view with jacket on, there are some ripples below the seat in the trousers. But you're standing with your hips forward and weight toward the balls of your feet. If you shift your hips back only slightly, the line will fall straighter from the seat. You can already see some difference in the rear shot with jacket off. So unless that forward lean is the way you stand all the time, the trousers are probably fine.

I really don't see anything else to tweak. The collar closes well around the neck and is concentric with the shirt collar in back. Lapels lie well. The front-back balance looks good--the skirt doesn't kick out. The vertical stripes run parallel down the fronts--no crossing or splaying. The sleeves, while large enough to give freedom with a jumper underneath, are pitched very nicely and have a good shape. Trouser seat and length look fine; pleats don't appear to pull open. I too would wish for hip pocket flaps on the jacket, but that's not a fit issue.

Wear it in good health!

[Mr Hillier]

Congratulations Mr Hillier!

Thank you Micheal! I have worn either the jacket or the suit every day since I collected it, and I show no sign of slowing down. For me it starts simply with pure admiration for the cloth. As you suggest, I now intend to live in this suit for the foreseeable future and give it the use it deserves.

did you tuck the pocket flaps in? I think that a jacket with action back and half-belt would look more balanced showing its flaps in front.

Hector M, the flaps are tucked in. I didn't think too deeply about the flaps. I will make sure they get an adequate airing.

I really don't see anything else to tweak

Thank you Couch! On walking around in the suit, I think a little more fullness in the thigh for ease of movement and slightly shorter sleeves would be the icing on the cake. I also plan to sort out the tab collar, which isn't very useable at present. The button for the lapel buttonhole needs moving towards the edge of the lapel, and I need a new tab, one inch longer. The only really essential thing at this stage is the tab collar.

Thank you gentlemen for letting me blather on about this suit here, your presence has spared my friends and colleagues from the chore of listening to me talk about it endlessly, which would have been very very dull for them!

[hectorm]

I have worn either the jacket or the suit every day since I collected it, and I show no sign of slowing down. I now intend to live in this suit for the foreseeable future and give it the use it deserves.

Go ahead Mr. Hillier. Live in it, sleep in it.
Quoting Nicholas Storey: "Tweeds shouldn't really be allowed to be seen until they are in a state that some Townies would describe as nearly fit for gardening duty".

[Mr Hillier]

A very quick question for the members:

Do your coats with action backs have a pleat in the lining to free up the movement in the back? I think a minor tweak may be necessary on my coat, as the lining can only expand a little, and does not allow the action back its full range of movement. I notice this when cycling and both my arms are extended forward.

I was thinking that maybe a box pleat on the centre back lining seam would work, is there a usual way of doing this?

Thank you.