Hi All,
I'm considering commissioning my first DB suit and am leaning towards a 4X1 light or mid gray flannel, preferably a chalk stipe or windowpane woolen. I was hoping to bounce a few questions off you.
First, is a 4X1 right for my shape, which is 6'2 and a bit stocky and wide with a 46 inch chest and 37 inch waist. I'm hoping for a suit that creates a thinning and sleek look. Also, given this goal is there anything I should consider about windowpane or stripes, such as the width between stripes?
Second, I wonder what weight woolen I should consider given I live in San Francisco, which is notorious for having extreme microclimates.
It seems traveling a mere 3 miles can vary the temperature 10-20 degrees. (As a note, I wouldn't wear this suit more than 8 times per year so I don't think the durability of woolen should be an issue.) Finally, which cloth makers would you recommend for the type of cloth I'm seeking? I'm familiar with the usual suspects. I looked at the Minnis online and liked the 300 but unfortunately it is just a solid and I didn't see any patterns in that color. I also looked at the Fox Flannel swatches online but some of the more interesting patterns are the LL ones at 18 oz! I fear that would be too heavy for my climate, and may make me even look more stocky than I already am! Do you know if Fox offers those patterns in lighter weights?
I suppose one option would be to get a heavy cloth with less canvass and lining?
Thanks in advance!
Alex
Double Breasted Commission
Alex
Fox do give quite a lot of information on their website as to relative cloth weights, but from first-hand experience with their product, there is no substitute for comparing samples before your eyes. I appreciate that from California this will mean prompting them into sending swatches – in my case (because they are about 50 miles away from here) I decided to call on them. This was something of an education - not least in navigation : their premises are rather tucked-away. They have a stupendous range of out of production remnants; I ended up with some black barathea for a dinner jacket, rather than the flannel I had intended. Perhaps if you emailed them, they might be able to point you in the direction of something other than their advertised stock?
I note from your dimensions that we are possibly not dissimilar in proportion. Some years ago I was captivated by the idea of a double-breasted suit and had one made up with a Hong Kong tailor. Despite a lot of planning, the finished product has always been something of a disappointment – and no fault of the tailor concerned.
There were 2 problems, both of which might have some relevance in your case:
Firstly, I am not a beanpole. It just seems to me that double-breasted suits can turn the already deep-chested into the "rather substantial" and just seem to detract from any silhouette that isn't very svelte. Being over 6' does help, but not much. I must say that I do like the function of a double-breasted jacket, and find them particularly comfortable. They also lie well when you are seated. For this reason I did not hesitate to have my dinner jacket in a (1+1) double-breasted style, but a single breasted version in velvet is now on the cards for the future.
Secondly, they do not ventilate in the same way that a single breasted jacket does. As a consequence they are perhaps warmer, which might be an advantage - but by the same token they will be uncomfortable in variable temperatures, by comparison. Since this is a factor that you had mentioned, you might consider it particularly pertinent.
Had you given any thought to a single breasted style with peak lapels? These can look very elegant in my opinion, particularly on a single buttoned coat.
Regards
David
Fox do give quite a lot of information on their website as to relative cloth weights, but from first-hand experience with their product, there is no substitute for comparing samples before your eyes. I appreciate that from California this will mean prompting them into sending swatches – in my case (because they are about 50 miles away from here) I decided to call on them. This was something of an education - not least in navigation : their premises are rather tucked-away. They have a stupendous range of out of production remnants; I ended up with some black barathea for a dinner jacket, rather than the flannel I had intended. Perhaps if you emailed them, they might be able to point you in the direction of something other than their advertised stock?
I note from your dimensions that we are possibly not dissimilar in proportion. Some years ago I was captivated by the idea of a double-breasted suit and had one made up with a Hong Kong tailor. Despite a lot of planning, the finished product has always been something of a disappointment – and no fault of the tailor concerned.
There were 2 problems, both of which might have some relevance in your case:
Firstly, I am not a beanpole. It just seems to me that double-breasted suits can turn the already deep-chested into the "rather substantial" and just seem to detract from any silhouette that isn't very svelte. Being over 6' does help, but not much. I must say that I do like the function of a double-breasted jacket, and find them particularly comfortable. They also lie well when you are seated. For this reason I did not hesitate to have my dinner jacket in a (1+1) double-breasted style, but a single breasted version in velvet is now on the cards for the future.
Secondly, they do not ventilate in the same way that a single breasted jacket does. As a consequence they are perhaps warmer, which might be an advantage - but by the same token they will be uncomfortable in variable temperatures, by comparison. Since this is a factor that you had mentioned, you might consider it particularly pertinent.
Had you given any thought to a single breasted style with peak lapels? These can look very elegant in my opinion, particularly on a single buttoned coat.
Regards
David
Thanks Melcombe. This is what I'm afraid of. They tend to look best on tall and thin as the DB fills the frame out. In my case I think you might be right, that it will make me look more substantial in the wrong areas.Melcombe wrote:
Firstly, I am not a beanpole. It just seems to me that double-breasted suits can turn the already deep-chested into the "rather substantial" and just seem to detract from any silhouette that isn't very svelte. Being over 6' does help, but not much. I must say that I do like the function of a double-breasted jacket, and find them particularly comfortable. They also lie well when you are seated. For this reason I did not hesitate to have my dinner jacket in a (1+1) double-breasted style, but a single breasted version in velvet is now on the cards for the future.
I do have one suit like this- a single button peak lapel. It is a sharp look.Melcombe wrote:
Had you given any thought to a single breasted style with peak lapels? These can look very elegant in my opinion, particularly on a single buttoned coat.
Regards
David
Dempsy444
A bit of point/counterpoint. I am a half an inch taller than you, with a 44 inch chest and 37 inch waist. I currently own 16 bespoke DB suits and a few assorted odd DB coats that I wear almost exclusively.
I once dressed a very successful young man who frankly came to me looking like Elmer Fudd, short and very heavy. He left wearing a DB suit that transformed him into Douglas Fairbanks Jr. Those were his words, not mine. He never thought he could wear a DB. He looked dashing in it.
You have the physique to wear a DB...we all do. It's a question of mind over matter, and the talent of a good tailor. I think the bad rap on DBs comes from the fact that we see others wearing RTW versions that are horrid and make their wearers appear even more so. Seek the services of a skilled tailor for your DB!
I am pleased to hear you like the patterns in the LL Fox book. The 18 ozs weight is not to be feared especially for your climate. Have your tailor make it up with the very lightest of structure and you will have a comfortable suit that feels like wearing a nice sweater to work. The patterns in the LL book are exclusive to the book.
Cheers
A bit of point/counterpoint. I am a half an inch taller than you, with a 44 inch chest and 37 inch waist. I currently own 16 bespoke DB suits and a few assorted odd DB coats that I wear almost exclusively.
I once dressed a very successful young man who frankly came to me looking like Elmer Fudd, short and very heavy. He left wearing a DB suit that transformed him into Douglas Fairbanks Jr. Those were his words, not mine. He never thought he could wear a DB. He looked dashing in it.
You have the physique to wear a DB...we all do. It's a question of mind over matter, and the talent of a good tailor. I think the bad rap on DBs comes from the fact that we see others wearing RTW versions that are horrid and make their wearers appear even more so. Seek the services of a skilled tailor for your DB!
I am pleased to hear you like the patterns in the LL Fox book. The 18 ozs weight is not to be feared especially for your climate. Have your tailor make it up with the very lightest of structure and you will have a comfortable suit that feels like wearing a nice sweater to work. The patterns in the LL book are exclusive to the book.
Cheers
Guys
I have held back commenting on this post as I think it is a very relevant and, possibly, controversial subject- my wife dislikes them for instance. I can well see why people are nervous of DB because of the bulk effect- indeed I think Prince Charles wears them for exactly that reason as he is a very slight man ( I have met him a number of times.). Against that, I think DB s can be incredibly smart despite the slightly less formal ranking they hold in suit styles. When I met Michael he was wearing a LL flannel in a colour I would not have chosen ordinarily but he looked magnificent. It was DB and he looked a powerful man, but not a bulky man. I think the point here is it is all about how well the suit is cut- exactly the point Michael is making. I think the heights quoted really allow a well cut DB to be worn without fear- it's all about personal choice. Similarly I have seen far slighter men wear DBs well- I would particularly mention Edward Sexton, who I have not met but seems to have a penchant for them with striped ties and photographs well. I understand the nervousness but I would be inclined to experiment on this one
I have held back commenting on this post as I think it is a very relevant and, possibly, controversial subject- my wife dislikes them for instance. I can well see why people are nervous of DB because of the bulk effect- indeed I think Prince Charles wears them for exactly that reason as he is a very slight man ( I have met him a number of times.). Against that, I think DB s can be incredibly smart despite the slightly less formal ranking they hold in suit styles. When I met Michael he was wearing a LL flannel in a colour I would not have chosen ordinarily but he looked magnificent. It was DB and he looked a powerful man, but not a bulky man. I think the point here is it is all about how well the suit is cut- exactly the point Michael is making. I think the heights quoted really allow a well cut DB to be worn without fear- it's all about personal choice. Similarly I have seen far slighter men wear DBs well- I would particularly mention Edward Sexton, who I have not met but seems to have a penchant for them with striped ties and photographs well. I understand the nervousness but I would be inclined to experiment on this one
Dempsy 444
I concur. I am a recent enthusiast of the DB suit, only about 3 years now, who should have been wearing them for the past 30. They flatter my beanpole form more than the single breasted. However, just about anyone can wear the DB suit. It is a matter of cut and confidence more than anything else. They can make a statement because they are not the norm, so confidence is the more important factor. At least that was the case for me. Costi advised me to experiment and I am very glad of it. I would go for it, most likely in a 6x2. You have the height.
I concur. I am a recent enthusiast of the DB suit, only about 3 years now, who should have been wearing them for the past 30. They flatter my beanpole form more than the single breasted. However, just about anyone can wear the DB suit. It is a matter of cut and confidence more than anything else. They can make a statement because they are not the norm, so confidence is the more important factor. At least that was the case for me. Costi advised me to experiment and I am very glad of it. I would go for it, most likely in a 6x2. You have the height.
Dear Alex,dempsy444 wrote: is a 4X1 right for my shape, which is 6'2 and a bit stocky and wide with a 46 inch chest and 37 inch waist? I'm hoping for a suit that creates a thinning and sleek look. Also, given this goal is there anything I should consider about windowpane or stripes, such as the width between stripes?
Regarding your first question: much depends on the cut of the jacket, its structure and the shape and length of the lapels.
I believe that with your height and a 46 inch chest, the almost perfect square formed in front by the 4x1 might not be to your best advantage. I agree with couch, you have a body which can carry a 6x2 very well (a 9 inch drop between chest and waist is not stocky at all, on the contrary, it´s considered athletic). You may also experiment with the placing of the buttons in a "champagne glass" layout.
Regarding windowpane or stripes: I´m also convinced -against conventional wisdom- that good tailoring trumps (and even turns around) any effect that those patterns could initially have on your appearance.
By all means, jump into the pool of DBs with confidence.
Dear Alex,hectorm wrote: By all means, jump into the pool of DBs with confidence.
I have little to add - just two things:
1. Discuss the plans with your tailor. It is Despos if I remember well. I'm sure he will tell you what flatters your body
2. In terms of cloth and considering the SF climate, I would suggest you to start with the LL light grey Mistral, subscription currently open. This is a hopsack and a work horse of a cloth. It drapes very well and will be much more versatile than any flannel option.
cheers, David
demsy444,
I have the standard Fox flannel in 14 ounce navy chalk, DB 6x2. I love it. The width between stripes is about 3/4 inches. I am 6 foot 1 and normally would prefer the stripe to be about one inch. However for some reason this Fox pattern seems perfect for the DB. The weight is comfortable late October through early March in the mid-Atlantic.
I have the standard Fox flannel in 14 ounce navy chalk, DB 6x2. I love it. The width between stripes is about 3/4 inches. I am 6 foot 1 and normally would prefer the stripe to be about one inch. However for some reason this Fox pattern seems perfect for the DB. The weight is comfortable late October through early March in the mid-Atlantic.
Thank you all for the very helpful input. Michael, I look forward to seeing the LL Fox Flannel in person and like your idea of trying a lighter structure with the heavier cloth. I have seen some do a DB with A&S or one of its descendant tailors this way and it appears to drape very nicely. To your point David, if I do commission a DB I will likely do it through Chris, so will be sure to listen to his sage advice. I just like to learn as much as possible going into the process, as I find it helps guard against myself as much as anything (provided I don't become deluded about how much I know).
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