Who are the bespeakers?

[Scot]

In another thread Mr Alden has, in his usual compelling way, suggested that the generally declining quality of cloth produced by the mills is driven by demand, and that there is insufficient knowledge of the characteristics of good cloth, and hence demand for it, amongst the very small numbers who commission bespoke to make its production worthwhile. (I hope that is a reasonable summary of the argument). I do wonder whether the climate-controlled environments in which we generally live and work have not had something to do with the weight of cloth that is often, perhaps mistakenly, preferred, but there is something here, I think, of greater interest. That "something" is the question of who is doing the bespeaking, what their values are, why they do it and what they are hoping to achieve; and whether the answers to these questions are different now to what they would have been say 70 years ago.

I suspect that 70 years ago (and I have only some vague comments of my father to go on) "bespoke" might have been almost ubiquitous for the middle-middle-classes upwards, albeit practised with various degrees of expertise and sophistication. "Style" might have been a consideration at the forefront of the minds of a few dandy's but the majority would have been interested in looking "smart" - a cloth that would hang well and hold a sharp crease in the trousers. But they would also have been thrifty, even, perhaps especially, the aristocrats. Clothes would not be seen as disposable but would be worn until they fell apart, and then patched up and worn again. The type of cloth required for such bespeakers is robust, well-made and with substance. Bespoke is not seen as associated with "luxury" as much as with "quality".

Is it that "bespoke as luxury" and RTW/MTM for those who can't afford it, if this is indeed the current state of affairs, is a pincer that is leading cloth production in its current dubious direction? The requirements of MTM might lead to concentration on a certain type of cloth production but the obsession with luxury is no less culpable. The super-rich don't care if their fabulously expensive suits wear out in a year; they may prefer it if they do! We need more thrift!

These questions of who are the bespeakers, why they do it, etc, I find fascinating and I am surprised they have not formed the basis of a PhD thesis before now. There are even "Professors" in the viscinity of Savile Row who might supervise it!

[Scot]

Thrift I say!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picture ... me=2632173

[simonc]

I have a number of suits that have subtle repairs (and, sadly, one that has a very obvious repair to the trouser pocket as a result of giving very specific instructions to a barbarian and then having them disregarded).

I'm never quite sure how people perceive them if they notice them, but I'll be damned if I'm going to throw away a good suit before I've had value from it.

However, I would note that 'in the old days' even RTW was made from heavy cloth which would wear well - I suspect the determinant was more that clothing was generally expensive and the bespoke premium was lesser.

[HandcraftTailor]

In days of old clothing was often repaired and regenerated before being disposed of. My Grandmother told me stories of my Grandfathers era (1896-1989), where a father would send his older suits back to him for recutting for the son. My Grandfather often reversed the suit of a client to get a second wear. The coat and trousers where disassembled, the pockets, lining and interfacing removed and then stitched back together.
The telling sign was that the out breast would be repositioned on the right side as apposed to the left. Cloth was expensive and hard to come by particularly in rural Ireland.

[Concordia]

It wasn't so long ago that bespoke didn't even imply outrageous prices or quality. The economy around London was such that if you wanted to, you could find tailor-made clothes of pretty much any level. If you weren't a Mayfair/St. James type, you got it made in the City. Or in your neighborhood, if even that was too much. I would guess that there were several other European cities about which one could say that--- not to mention the Asian capitals, where it often still holds.

[Physicsman]

In answer to Scot's question as to why: for myself there are 2 main reasons and then a few subsidiary ones.

1) My body dimensions are unusual - wider than normal shoulders suitable for a 44 jacket, yet the rest of the body (circumference) requires a 42. An off the rail (OTR) 44 jacket on me around the front has enough extra cloth to stuff a whole live chicken down!

2) I'm semi allergic to the touch of wool against my skin. With bespoke trousers, I get my tailor to fully seal the trouser lining inside so that no wool touches my skin.

So in my specific case, if I had been around 70 years ago, the reasons would still have been the same.

Another big plus with bespoke is that I can actually find chalk stripe cloth of a style that I actually like and then have a suit made from it. With OTR, the choice of patterns are limited and I don't like any of them.