Article by Alden: The first serious step in bespoke

[alden]

http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... ilit=golia

[internationalist]

Thank you!

Whnay,

Here are a few shirtmakers I have used:

Merolla et deL’Ero
Via Calabritta 20
(081) 764 3012

Camiceria Vittoria
Via Carlo di Cesare 18
(081) 406401

Anna Catalano
Via Ascensione 38
(081) 401 867

Antica Camiciera Aprea
Via Toledo, 317
2nd floor
(081) 411 838

Luisa D’Ambrosio
Via Mario Morganti, 3
(081) 551 0918

Camiciera Golia
Via Roma, 329
(081) 260 552

Ada Cioce & Andrea Cammarota
Via Nardones, 17

Cheers

M Alden

That's a good list. And how to chose one of these as a newbie? Just gut felling or who speak (or do not speak) English?

[Onobitno]

I second that, could someone please provide some more info about those mentioned?

I've been to Ada Cioce's workshop (as Andrea the tie maker shares the premises with her) and she is very organized. The small place is extremely clean and tidy. Her handwriting, the way she folds cloth and every aspect of her work routine looked extremely tidy. I've not seen her shirts, but only judging from the looks of her workroom, I would guess she puts a lot of attention to details.

But as I said, some more input on those mentioned would be great.
Many thanks in advance!!!

[hectorm]

And how to chose one of these as a newbie? Just gut felling or who speak (or do not speak) English?

I second that, could someone please provide some more info about those mentioned?

The only one on the list for who I could put my hands into the fire is Signora Anna Matuozzo. She was the shirtmaker of the London House (Rubinacci) for many years and now runs her own show. Her shop is truly pleasant and of very easy access (definitely an advantage in Naples) in one of those big old apartment houses a block from the waterfront. Another advantage (in Internationalist´s case) is that they do speak English.
All her shirts are superb and she covers the whole range from bespoke (your own pattern and made by hand) to what we could call MTM put together by machine. And since my last visit a while back, I have also seen RTW pieces and she has started a "made to order" system (su misura) by which you can send your measurements or another shirt that fits you well, and she will send you samples of fabrics and, of course, your new shirt back. Although, I recommend the experience of dealing with them personally (and run the risk of falling in love with her daughter Simona). The shop carries many fabrics (like Anderson, Riva, etc.). Their cut is impeccable with magnificent collars and perfect shoulders, but you have to like (and take advantage of) the Italian/Neapolitan style. The price range is ample. Expect to pay around 500 euros for an MTM. Not a bargain but a fair price if you are prepared for playing in the big leagues.
I hope this is useful.

[alden]

That's a good list. And how to chose one of these as a newbie? Just gut felling or who speak (or do not speak) English?

We were all newbies. The difference is that many of us were newbies before the internet. Pretty damn lucky if you ask me. You should have been there, cutting lists out of the yellow pages and then going door to door. Those were some amazing experiences. I was there at the very end of the great period and most of the best tailors are long gone now. Like I said, "lucky" to have known them.

My advice is to burn some shoe leather and go door to door. Its the only way to know for sure especially with the advent of the net. Why click on a home page when you can knock on a door. You'll see the truth first hand. And avoid the image created by internet entrepreneur blowing sartorial smoke for a dime. There are no shortcuts. I know...that's pretty old fashioned, grandfatherly, stick in the mud advice. But its my advice. I pay for my wardrobe and so do you.

Cheers

[alden]

But as I said, some more input on those mentioned would be great.
Many thanks in advance!!!

They are all quite good. There is not much between any of them, a question of style or just a feeling. The pricing varies wildly these days as much branding via not so stealthy marketing campaigns on forums means that a bespoke shirtmaker that used to charge 150 euros for a fully hand made, traditional bespoke make can now charge as much as a thousand. A fool and his money are quickly parted. Don't be foolish. Most of you guys went to school, right? You've got diplomas. And you have common sense. Use it.

Take a nice trip to Naples or Rome and go door to door. You will enjoy it and learn something.

Cheers

[Onobitno]

Dear Mr. Alden,

Your advice is very good and that is exactly what I did. One address leads to the other and in Napoli everybody knows somebody. But my problem is the following: I used one shirtmaker in Napoli, but I'm not fully satisfied with the outcome. She is a nice girl and willing to accept special requests, but she doesn't put much effort in details. Now my dilemma is: should I try somebody else or give her some time to fix my fit? Should a good shirtmaker be able to nail the fit on the first few shirts?

Many thanks and kind regards,

Leo

[alden]

Leo

An excellent shirtmaker will dial you in on the first shirt with a few fittings, and it might take a second shirt for the slightly less gifted or less motivated (always a bit of a problem). Of course, that depends on how difficult you are to fit. But generally speaking most men are not difficult.

There are so many good shirtmakers in Naples you should not wait too long nor accept too much. Give a couple of them a go and see what happens.

Good luck.

Michael

[vincentporsiempre]

And how to chose one of these as a newbie? Just gut felling or who speak (or do not speak) English?

I second that, could someone please provide some more info about those mentioned?

The only one on the list for who I could put my hands into the fire is Signora Anna Matuozzo. The price range is ample. Expect to pay around 700 euros for an MTM. Not a bargain but a fair price if you are prepared for playing in the big leagues.
I hope this is useful.

Recent reports suggest that the pricing tops at 350-400 Euro for their fully handmade shirt but then continue charging that on subsequent orders with less handwork, whatever is the case, she is too expensive for the market in Naples. I have start getting my shirt in Naples too a couple of years ago, and the average price excluding fabric was 70-100 euro per shirt with some degree of handwork. I have tried many so far, and one of the best (surely best accessible to International clients) was Antica Camiceria Lombardi (Mr Luciano), that was in the past the original supplier of shirt to LH and have recently heard just started doing so again. It is well regarded in Naples as a true shirtmaker (so I have heard saying people at the Marinella shop and tailors i was having chats with and asking opinions), and may have been the teacher of many other shirtmakers that have worked at LH in between his times, or at least I was told he was for the last Head Shirtmaker they had in house before outsourcing back the operation last September. I can also second the going door to door, as this was the way I found an equally talented lady, cutting everyting bespoke including collar and cuffs (no pre -cut models), but the risk with those small artisan is that delivery times can be very long....

[internationalist]

Sorry I just came back to my topic to see how nicely it develops.

Sometimes I run in circles. http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... 935#p71935

Thank you all for your valuable inputs. One important question is if I, let's say venture to Naples only for the shirt (and the accompanying sartorial vacation, of course), how much time should I set aside for the project?

X time to find a shirt maker.
Then Y find him or her to make the actual shirt.

Oh, and by the way, how does Paris compares to Naples? In price, quality, service, artisans speaking English... I don't know, I just come to appreciate the French lately.

[internationalist]

Bump.

Okay. Someone some place around here forums mentioned when looking for a tailor or shirt maker instead of look on the Internet just walk the streets of X city.

I was thinking of it and may I conclude it is wrong?

I know a few things of marketing (not much) but let's say I am a shirtmaker in city X in 2014. Yeah, I am quite good at it and get referrals in my city, clients recommend me to their friends but it is just plain IMPOSSIBLE today for any small business worth to mention to have at least a Facebook page where customers can 'like' it, share it with friends, comment on it and communicate with the business owners. It can be a blog, Twitter, dedicated site or web shop, but somehow Facebook is the minimum I consider, it is free and quite easy and intuitive to set up. A tailor or shirtmaker business and the Internet is quite a natural match: you just make photos of your work (in progress, too) and post it with comments to your site, Facebook or blog.

Just go out on the streets of any city and you find half the population is (at least on public transport) on their smartphones (not a few of them on Facebook in particular). A small business can't live without an online presence not because the fear of overseas sartorial tourists will flock him/her but because online is simple the most efficient form in these days and times to get local business; his or her bread and butter; that's why.

And if you are good at what you are doing you obviously start to get a following beyond your city limits and your business starts to naturally grow and expand. If you are not good you cannot get as much fake positive reviews on the Internet, easy as that.

Every business owner has to be also a marketer of his/her business. At least a little bit. Business is like a shark: if you don't swim or grow you sink or die.

Last time it was Ms. Maria Frittolini one 'famous shirtmaker or seamstress on the Internet'. I better ask it straight: Any new additions since then to the scene? For reference.

Agree/disagree/comment?

To add insult to injury if there is no Internet there is no renaissance in the interest for quality menswear and this very forum would not have come into existence in the first place.

[Frederic Leighton]

Not all good things are on internet. My mum's recipe for the snails she cooks on Christmas Eve is not on internet and, despite not being 'liked' on facebook, is 'liked' by her guests. My tailor is not on facebook, and as a self-employed piano-teacher and concert musician I'm not on facebook either. No twitter, no website, no blog. The instrument maker that makes the clavichords I use in recital doesn't have a facebook page and doesn't have a website either. At the moment he has a waiting list of four years. If you want him to make an instrument for you, you write him a letter first and go to his worshop in Berlin next. He doesn't need advertising. He doesn't want advertising.

[davidhuh]

Not all good things are on internet. My mum's recipe for the snails she cooks on Christmas Eve is not on internet and, despite not being 'liked' on facebook, is 'liked' by her guests.

[couch]

I would also note that e-marketing skills are now a commodity, while expert tailoring and shirtmaking skills, as Michael often reminds us, are very scarce and in some quarters endangered. Lifetimes being limited as they are, I'd rather see artisans spending their remaining hours practicing their calling than tweeting. The ones who have an interest in e-marketing will dabble in it, those that can afford it may hire it, and for the rest, as you point out, the existence of online forums and blogs provides a contemporary version of what has always been the principal advertising mode for bespoke: word of mouth.

[Russell]

The instrument maker that makes the clavichords I use in recital doesn't have a facebook page and doesn't have a website either. At the moment he has a waiting list of four years. If you want him to make an instrument for you, you write him a letter first and go to his worshop in Berlin next. He doesn't need advertising. He doesn't want advertising.

Unlikely as I am to ever order a clavichord – commissioning the building of one by any other means than which you describe would seem rather tasteless & lacking in sentiment. To possess & play an instrument you’ve had a hand in creating – via your commission - must be deeply satisfying to say the least.

Regards
Russell