I wonder about SR quality

[gegarrenton]

OK, ok I wish I had never mentioned cars

To David's last post, I have used four tailors on the Row over the years (since 1995), which is a pretty good cross section, so I'm most certainly not tarring the whole of the Row. I think my overall point is, the further I have moved up the ladder in terms of cost and reputation of the house in question, the more disappointments I have had with these follow on problems. The cut and style is superb. I'm just expressing a little frustration at very expensive garments having quality issues.

Certainly valid, and I hope it gets sorted properly for you!

[davidhuh]

OK, ok I wish I had never mentioned cars

To David's last post, I have used four tailors on the Row over the years (since 1995), which is a pretty good cross section, so I'm most certainly not tarring the whole of the Row. I think my overall point is, the further I have moved up the ladder in terms of cost and reputation of the house in question, the more disappointments I have had with these follow on problems. The cut and style is superb. I'm just expressing a little frustration at very expensive garments having quality issues.

Dear Stephen,

my question would then be: which unholy spirit made you moving up the scale in the first place?

I had a problem once - most likely a skiffle done by an otherwise very skilled coat maker. We discussed it very peacefully two or three times, until the cutter realised he could not save the baby. They made a new waist coat for free, and I remain a happy customer of this SR tailor

cheers, David

[stephenm]

I wanted to move up the scale because I'm one of those sad obsessives who believes there is always better .. it has cost me so much money in all aspects of my life

[Badden]

Really not sure where this debate is coming from. Regardless of the OPs inexperience with bespoke, use of multiple tailors etc., an expensive handmade product was poorly constructed, delivered to him, and subsequent corrections accepted with a huff.

That is, frankly, unacceptable, and the OP has every right to be upset. Members on this board often surprise me with their responses.

[Costi]

Better is often the enemy of good...

As with any thing handmade, some degree of variability is inherent. Then, not everyone is open about admitting one's own mistakes readily - that is a human thing, not a tailors' thing. It's wonderful when you encounter open and ready admittance, followed by immediate remedy. However, people who MAKE things (rather then sell products manufactured by others) tend to take pride in their work and, depending on character, may have a hard time dealing with failure, even when it yells in their face. We can write tomes on how this should not happen, but the reality is that it does happen. It may be useful to recognize whether this is a sloppy person who couldn't care less about issues with his output, or someone who, out of hurt pride, tries to diminish the extent of a mistake, but in the end does what is necessary to mend it. Artisans can be like that... Whether a customer can put up with this (for the sake of everything good the craftsman has to offer) or cannot take the bother, it's up to the two and their particular situation.
One more thing: in the case of a 1000 pound bespoke suit, you would probably find it easier to put up with this. However, at 4.5 K you have a hard time... Higher price doesn't always necessarily mean better products. It may just as well mean more advertising or more rent. Sometimes, it means higher pressure from superiors and, paradoxically, an environment that is more prone to mistakes. Therefore, your growing expectations with respect to higher prices may not be wisely placed, when we all know that tailors at expensive houses are neither schooled in Heaven nor paid in gold, while cloth costs the same for everyone. You may wish to choose your tailor following other criteria. What it costs is just what it costs: you may afford it or not and basta. The issue is whether you desire it, regardless of price. And be prepared to encounter pretty much the same (human) issues at any price level in this line of work

[NJS]

Really not sure where this debate is coming from. Regardless of the OPs inexperience with bespoke, use of multiple tailors etc., an expensive handmade product was poorly constructed, delivered to him, and subsequent corrections accepted with a huff.

That is, frankly, unacceptable, and the OP has every right to be upset. Members on this board often surprise me with their responses.

Yes, Badden, you and I know of one in particular. Least said soonest mended - what?! However, the burden of this thread was exactly why I started (and, for reasons that you will grasp, I wish that I had not), the thread 'An Open Question...'. It is imperative to have some idea of what you are after as a bespoke customer! - also, to be able to take issue with glaring faults. I am not a messenger for any particular firms but it is quite clear to me that there are certain craftsmen on and around 'SR' whose reputation is outstanding and I cannot really understand why anyone should end up being stuffed into defective products - or having been 'done' not take it on the chin and go somewhere outstanding: Byrne & Burge; Davies; Dege; G&H; Kent, Haste & Lachter; Meyer & Mortimer; Norton; Poole - I have seen recent work of G&H on a visiting friend - not an easy figure to fit - the goods - pricey - but brilliant - they (actually, Katharine Sargent, before she left) even made him an opera cloak! Perfect. It is insane just to wander in to any tailor without some idea of what you want and how it should look and feel - and then feel vaguely aggrieved at the result. There is no point in whingeing on forum boards - you need to talk straight to the tailors and, if something is not up to snuff, you tell them in no uncertain terms and demand correction and, if they will not oblige you create a scene and storm off somewhere better!
NJS

[stephenm]

Some of guys have a very strange idea of what is acceptable.

This is bugger all to do with what I specify or not - I gave detailed instructions and they were delivered, no issue.

My point was despite the delivery, some of these garments weren't finished properly or started to deteriorate rapidly.

An odd psyche is exhibited at times here, as though the customer has to meet a certain standard and be prepared for the foibles of the tailor, rather than the other way round.

My last word, I'm clearly not worthy of the attention of the men of Savile Row.

[NJS]

Some of guys have a very strange idea of what is acceptable.

This is bugger all to do with what I specify or not - I gave detailed instructions and they were delivered, no issue.

My point was despite the delivery, some of these garments weren't finished properly or started to deteriorate rapidly.

An odd psyche is exhibited at times here, as though the customer has to meet a certain standard and be prepared for the foibles of the tailor, rather than the other way round.

My last word, I'm clearly not worthy of the attention of the men of Savile Row.

I don't think that anyone has said anything of the kind - about accommodating, at one's own expense, any tailor's foibles. And there is no point in condemning a whole trade as a result of limited individual experiences. The customer needs to know what he should expect (you seem to) and then, if he is under-delivered, according to reasonable expectations, to create a complaint. If it isn't handled properly, then go somewhere else! It's the same with just about any service or production-line. Vote with your feet.

NJS

[gegarrenton]

An odd psyche is exhibited at times here, as though the customer has to meet a certain standard and be prepared for the foibles of the tailor, rather than the other way round.

My last word, I'm clearly not worthy of the attention of the men of Savile Row.

Your last word is crazy, anyone is worthy. Finding the right house is the key!

There certainly is some stuff that comes of as "the tailor is right", but I think most of it is well meaning, and really is trying to say "find the guy that matches you". I get on really well with the boys from Poole, and I am certain that colors my experience for the better. Plus, the garments are always top notch, which doesn't hurt either!

[hectorm]

the waistcoat split on a front seam, .... the lining has come apart in two places, the inner lining on both sleeves is detaching. ......On wearing it for the first time, I saw a seam on the trousers wasn't made up ..... The three garments above cost me close to £11,000 in total.

Sorry that happened to you Stephen.
I believe the store linked below has much more reasonable pricing when it comes to outfits for playing rugby.
http://www.rugbystore.co.uk/

[vancehn]

Frustratingly, the higher I go up the SR price scale, the more problems I encounter. The three garments above cost me close to £11,000 in total.

Personally I would claim it at the Bespoke Tailors Benevolent Association .

To bring everything back into proportions

[Mark Seitelman]

Some of guys have a very strange idea of what is acceptable.

This is bugger all to do with what I specify or not - I gave detailed instructions and they were delivered, no issue.

My point was despite the delivery, some of these garments weren't finished properly or started to deteriorate rapidly.

An odd psyche is exhibited at times here, as though the customer has to meet a certain standard and be prepared for the foibles of the tailor, rather than the other way round.

My last word, I'm clearly not worthy of the attention of the men of Savile Row.

From my limited experience with one Savile Row tailor, Davies & Son, I never encountered issues with workmanship or finishing. Indeed, I have found that they make strong clothing.

I have friends who have used Henry Poole and Anderson & Sheppard. Again, no negative words about workmanship.

Of course, any hand tailored garment may require some minor repairs due to use. A classic repair is the underarm lining which tends to undo over time.

There is a small subset of customers who prefer RTW after wearing bespoke. I have a client who used to get his suits made at Morty Sills (New York City), but once he left investment banking he turned to Paul Stuart RTW.

[marburyvmadison]

Like has been mentioned by a couple of posters -- I've found that the smaller houses that are off-row, but employ ex-SR cutters, and where the coats are put together by tailors within a certain radius of the Row to be considered a Row-made garment, to be more fastidious, and offer a better product. I've found that they're overall more dedicated and are willing to accommodate requests as well.

Without mentioning names, I visited a famous SR tailor (part of the triumvirate) and was being fitted in the dressing room and saw a couple of unfinished coats in the room. I was rather surprised that the collar as well as the lapels were entirely machine-stitched. I had expected that the lapels would at least be hand-padded, given the price. Whether or not it is functionally necessary is a separate issue.

I also handled the garments there, and the chest felt life-less.

[dempsy444]

I sometimes find the acceptance of quality issues on SR puzzling and also how much the client is supposed to work with the cutter, seeking to get him to understand his requirements. I think perhaps perspective has been lost. I recently had two handbuilt items made in Italy, by a man who is regarded as the very best in his field. He made the process very simple and accessible, asked the right questions, made a couple of small suggestions - both products arrived on time, and were perfect. Compared to SR, the process was a delight.

Yes. I have had the same experience. The process on the Row was an aloof and tedious one with disappointing results. Not a believer in the brand names on the Row. If London is convenient, perhaps the small independent tailors are worth a try and much better, as they have no brand to rest on.

[hectorm]

If you have the physique for it, I highly recommend all bespoke tailors everywhere in Italy.

I wonder what kind of physique that might be....