Good shirtmaker in UK

[davidhuh]

more importantly, a great client will wear the clothes so well that any modest errors will vaporize in the glow making a ham and egger of a sarto look great.

Cheers

[dempsy444]

hmmm. I would think that tailoring is such a technical trade and that an average tailor who doesn't possess the technical skills of a great tailor would ultimately produce an outcome only so good despite the quality of the client.

An experienced client will know what he needs both from a styling and a fit perspective so well that the margin for error for the average tailor is greatly reduced. But more importantly, a great client will wear the clothes so well that any modest errors will vaporize in the glow making a ham and egger of a sarto look great.

Cheers

Thanks, Michael. makes sense. good thing I have a great tailor

[alden]

Thanks, Michael. makes sense. good thing I have a great tailor

Yes, I believe you do.

The dream team combination is great tailor with great client. And you might be surprised to know that faced with a great tailor, a great client lets the master do his stuff. From the great client's perspective, its like sitting in First Class in a mild Epernay glow feeling the power of Rolls Royce engines lifting into the sky.

Cheers

[culverwood]

The dream team combination is great tailor with great client. And you might be surprised to know that faced with a great tailor, a great client lets the master do his stuff. From the great client's perspective, its like sitting in First Class in a mild Epernay glow feeling the power of Rolls Royce engines lifting into the sky.

So true.

[Melcombe]

Forgive my thread resurrection, but rather than kick off anew, may I make an honourable mention (possibly again) of Emma Willis?

I called into her shop in Jermyn Street yesterday whilst walking off a surfeit of sandwiches. And ended up buying 3 RTW examples.

The staff are a delight - and the workmanship of the shirts equally so.

[pagean]

Goodness. I leave the lounge for a mere 2 years and all these interesting conversations break out. I think Michael sums it up well with his wine analogy-if you're happy with what you have, then all is well. I've dealt with Liam De Vanney at Turnbulls for 5 years now. I have no idea of their shirts are MTM or bespoke. They appear, to me, to fit well. Lam's service is great. The universe is in balance.

Changing the topic of the thread completely-just received 10 madders from David Hober. He continues to approach perfection.

Pagean

[cathach]

Goodness. I leave the lounge for a mere 2 years and all these interesting conversations break out. I think Michael sums it up well with his wine analogy-if you're happy with what you have, then all is well. I've dealt with Liam De Vanney at Turnbulls for 5 years now. I have no idea of their shirts are MTM or bespoke.

The consensus appears to be that Turnbull & Asser only do RTW and bespoke and do not have the in-between of made-to-measure. Does anyone have other information on the company?

[pagean]

Well, I know they would describe my shirts as bespoke and I've always thought of them as bespoke. It appears however that they do not meet the definition of bespoke espoused by some fellow members.

[cathach]

Well, I know they would describe my shirts as bespoke and I've always thought of them as bespoke. It appears however that they do not meet the definition of bespoke espoused by some fellow members.

Did they do a fitting? I suppose that would be a major indicator as opposed to being straight to finish. Of course if you're happy with them thats the most important thing.

[pagean]

Several at the start. My pattern hasn't really changed since.

[yialabis]

Forgive my thread resurrection, but rather than kick off anew, may I make an honourable mention (possibly again) of Emma Willis?

I called into her shop in Jermyn Street yesterday whilst walking off a surfeit of sandwiches. And ended up buying 3 RTW examples.

The staff are a delight - and the workmanship of the shirts equally so.

I was there today , indeed they have some nice shirts and also some even nicer ties .. however the RTW range start from 190 GBP !!!! The more we buy at that price the more it is going to go up ..I think its ridiculous to sell a shirt at that price only because " we have our own factory in Gloucester".. and for a few other reasons I do not want to refer to in the forum now .! Also , the stuff , especially the ones who have been there since the beginning are not as delightful as they used to be...I wonder why !? I strongly believe that in times like this everyone should consider wisely about the real price of their products .. I do at least, and although one can not really compare , I find t hard to refrain from mentioning that with considerably less than that a really delightful lady in Rome makes me any shirt I want with a lot of hand work involved and my shirt maker in Athens makes two and a half of bespoke hand cut machine stitched ones ! If I had to buy a shirt in England I would go to Budd ..which is where I went today ! If I wanted a good bespoke shirt at a price that it is not an offence to the world (considering facts that Nicholas and others are discussing in other threads) I would go elsewhere!!!
regards
Vassilis

[NJS]

I agree, Vassilis. In the other threads, which you mention, I have never meant to suggest that there is anything wrong in having the best for ourselves but there are limits to what is available and the makers who pretend that they will make you the shirt-to-end-all-shirts, for several hundred pounds, or the suit-to-end-all-suits for £30,000, must think that there are at least a few 'suckers' still out there!

NJS

[pagean]

Vassilis:

I find myself green with jealousy. I agree with your comments re RTW-£190 is not reasonable. i believe I only pay approx 220 for bespoke there. I plan on visitng Budd in the coming weeks, however, should you wish to share details of your makers in Athens and Rome, i will bestow honorary Scottish citizenship upon you forthwith.

Pagean

[Julian]

Several at the start. My pattern hasn't really changed since.

There was an interesting article on the permanentstyle website about a factory visit to T&A which I suspect gives an insight into some of the debate. The article is here:

http://www.permanentstyle.co.uk/2009/12 ... hirts.html

I suspect that the fact that T&A bespoke shirts are made in the same factory as the RTW ones using essentially the same manufacturing process with a few very minor tweaks is what causes some people to classify them as expensive MTO. There is no individual artisan beavering away in an attic or basement somewhere to actually make the shirt. I however take a different view - for what that's worth given my limited experience with bespoke; I'm just starting out.

Although not a T&A customer (but very seriously considering becoming one in the next few weeks) I have popped into the bespoke shop for an initial exploratory visit and David Gale can be seen working at the back of the shop cutting patterns so as I understand it, and as confirmed by pagean, there is most definitely a full fitting process and a custom pattern being created. It's what happens to it next that seems to raise issues for some people.

Personally I value consistency of fit and manufacture quite highly so if the quality control at the factory is good then I have no problem with my original paper pattern being sent to Gloucester, digitised, and other machinery subsequently used to help in the cutting and the stitching. In fact the reason for digitising the original paper patterns seems to be a good one to me to avoid patterns gradually degrading over time. Read the permanentstyle article to understand T&A's thinking on this, I'm not in a position to either agree or disagree with the rationale behind it.

If I get an original paper pattern created for me by a skilled craftsman, have an extensive selection of fabric to choose from with technology subsequently used to consistently create shirts that adhere to the original pattern in materials and styles that I want then that's all that I need.

Whether T&A accomplish the above in practice is something that I'm probably soon to find out however, having just come back from holiday last night, I think that a few weeks of getting back to my usual eating and exercise regime is probably prudent before presenting myself to be measured.

- Julian

[alden]

"The Tale of Two Brothers" or "The Shirt That Would Never Fit"

A few years ago I was invited to visit and counsel a new state of the art shirtmaking facility in Italy. Two brothers, one a businessman and the other a bespoke shirtmaker by trade, had founded the new factory.

When I arrived only one of the brothers was present and the “business” brother took me on a tour of the facility. He was particularly proud of the latest CAD CAM system and was keen to showoff its efficiency. “You key in the measures, styles and features that have been provided by the shop. The computer creates a pattern based on these measurements. This pattern can be printed and sent to the shop if the retailer wants to muck about and show a paper pattern to his client. It tends to reassure clients that they are getting a custom product and so does no harm.” Hearing these words, I had the feeling that business brother would have made a terrible doctor or a great politician.

He took my measurements, keyed them into the computer and within seconds a sparse and quieter Alden appeared on the screen. “Now we will send the order through the system and take a look at your shirt!”, he said gleaming with pride. Fifteen minutes later a lady came into the control tower with a brand spanking new shirt. I tried it on, and it did not fit. It was not even close to fitting. “Hmm, I wonder what happened”, intoned business brother, “maybe my shirtmaker brother will know, he will be here soon.”

An hour or so later bespoke brother joined us and did a quick post mortum on the ill fated Alden shirt. He studied the pattern, scrutinized the screen, and was convinced that HAL had done his job! Then he went to his drafting desk, pulled out a fresh piece of paper and started to draw. “You must be a devil to fit Mr. Alden, you need a bespoke shirtmaker...not a custom shirtmaker. I am going to make you a shirt the traditional way! I am coming next week to your part of Italy on vacation, are you available for fittings?” “Ha! So much for technology!”, I laughed winking at biz bro. His shirtmaker brother replied, “Well the computer will fit 90 % of men sufficiently well, that is, as well as any RTW shirt will. Custom shirts are not really designed to fit any better, they are designed to give the client choices in fabrics and options that he normally does not have off the rack. As long as the client can wear RTW, he can wear our shirts. Only a small percentage of men really need a true bespoke shirt..and Mr Alden, you are one of them.”