Venanzi with Bespoke Tailor, James & James, Opens in NY

[dopey]

I have a question, which is not meant to be mischevious.

Davies is not crazy expensive by Savile Row standards. I think the price minus VAT for a two-piece is less than 2,000 GPB, which means around $3,500, give or take depending on the exchange rate. So what if one is an existing customer, accustomed to meeting Davies representatives in a midtown hotel and paying the old price? Are all the meetings now going to take place at Venanzi, and suits will start at the new price of $5,500?

What are you talking about? Venanzi’s bespoke product is made by James & James, maker for the Duke. What does that have to do with Davies? Besides, do you think Davies customers would stick with them if their bill went up by $2,000 per suit. I suspect the two operations will be run somewhat separately at the front end, even if there might be some muddying at the back-end. Keeping the customers from migrating in either direction will be important. Venanzi will not be happy if their customers decide they would prefer to go directly to Davies and save $2,000 per suit (and this is bespoke, so nonsense about exclusive designs is just that - nonsense). I also think that the Venanzi operation has not been going long enough for them to know exactly how it works or will work. It may be that all the measuring will be done by Venanzi staff in NY and the making by “James & James” in the UK, without the UK tailors meeting the customer. At this point, I am speculating and perhaps Mark will scout out the details or invite Mr. Gillotte to participate himself. Whatever I may think of their value ratio for myself, I have no doubt that they will come up with a way to deliver a superior product to their customers.

[Concordia]

I was under the impression that James&James and Davies were in fact under the same management now.

[manton]

I was under the impression that James&James and Davies were in fact under the same management now.

That's right. James & James is one of several names on Davies' door. As I understand it, the make and house style will be substantially the same. if not identical. It's sort of like going to Foster's. You can get them to put the name Foster's or Maxwell, your choice.

I can't tell if dopey already knows this. Sometimes he enjoys being ironic.

[dopey]

I was under the impression that James&James and Davies were in fact under the same management now.

You are correct. I was being somewhat sarcastic and pointing to the fact that a little smoke and some mirrors may well be used to convince customers they are getting a unique product when they are really getting a re-badged Davies suit (which is perfectly fine) for $2,000 more.

I was sure that the Davies/James & James connection had been discussed earlier in the thread or else I wuld have made more of an effort to be clear.

BTW - sorry I missed you at 510 on Friday. I had stopped in that day to see Raphael. With you, me, Manton and whoever else visiting that day, the elevator operator must have thought he was watching a production of Noises Off, with the London Lounge as cast.

[Concordia]

Next time. And by then, I will have left my temporary irony-free zone.

[Mark Seitelman]

Venanzi is working out its bespoke issues. Stay tuned.

At this point Venanzi is a RTW luxury store comparable to some of its neighbors, such as Bergdorf, Vacca, and Brioni.

They have lovely items. I visited yesterday, and pursuant to the inquiry of a member I asked about golf jackets. They have beautiful ones in different English tweeds at $650.

The taste level is excellent, and the store is worth a visit. Rob Gillotte will be most happy to meet you.

[/i]

[dopey]

Mark is correct.
The store is beautiful and worth a visit. Rob Gilotte was a gracious host when I visited and did a great job putting the place together. I hope that, by nitpicking about the bespoke process, I didn't give the wrong impression about the store in general. It is really one of the nicest selections of RTW I have seen.

[AlexanderKabbaz]

Davies is not crazy expensive by Savile Row standards. I think the price minus VAT for a two-piece is less than 2,000 GPB, which means around $3,500, give or take depending on the exchange rate. So what if one is an existing customer, accustomed to meeting Davies representatives in a midtown hotel and paying the old price? Are all the meetings now going to take place at Venanzi, and suits will start at the new price of $5,500?

One owner can, albeit not as well as not doing so, supervise more than one level of making. When I had my shop at 45 W. 57th, I owned three names under one roof ... Pec & Co, Poster Custom Shirtmakers, and Custom Shirts by Denhof. The client confusion was rampant. It did not matter than I actually maintained three sewing lines and three cutting lines. Convincing clients that the lady sewing on this side of the hallway was different from the lady on the other side ... it just didn't work. Solution? Moved Denhof to New Haven. Got rid of the Pec employees who wouldn't accept Poster's higher quality methods. Combined Pec and Poster under one name: mine. It all begins with a few astute clients who think they really know (and, in fairness, they may well know) what goes on behind the closed workroom doors.

This is one of the primary reasons my workrooms have always been open for client visits. Perhaps someone may want to inquire of Mr. Gillotte as to whether a suit can be followed through the making process, possibly with the assistance of a member of the London LL? That should set all questions to rest one way or the other.

[manton]

But, as I understand the situation, there are not two different makes and/or standards of quality. The "old" SR Davies suits were made the same way as the "new" NYC-ordered James & James suits will now be.

[Mark Seitelman]

Just to be clear, the bespoke department is not up and running yet although it has its own dedicated room in the store.