pant pockets

[davidhuh]

When they reassured me that they could open the suit back up after and fix ajust anyting, I decided to take it in two. Lesson learned. I really should have known already: I was on my way to London for work once and on my trip I was scheduled to go in for a fitting. During my flight over, the gentleman next to me was a SR customer and when he learned I was going to Huntsman, he smiled and said, "don't let those guy rush you out after only two fittings."

I should have listened.

Dear Dempsy444,

the situation is unpleasant, the result unacceptable - I think everybody agrees. Clearly, mistakes were made.

Now I don't think this has anything to do with the number of fittings. If mistakes are done, additional fittings will not necessarily lead to a much better suit. I work with two experienced tailors, they have both managed to do me a first suit with only two fittings. One of them is a travelling tailor. He sent me the suit after one fitting; I was wearing it a couple of times before returning to him for some minor adjustments - seems pretty much what Huntsman has been proposing.

Sorting out such mistakes is a bit painful with the traveling tailor system. You have to wait for months for a correction, which could probably be done on the spot if you would live in London. In the mean time, you are sitting on a paid suit you cannot wear

If I would be in your situation, I would look out for a tailor in the US. It is so much easier, less of a pain, in case you have something to sort out. Personally, I would only work with somebody who is in a city where I live or where I visit myself on a regular basis. Everything else is just adding complication.

Cheers, David

[dopey]

Dempsy - I hope Huntsman will make it right, and I expect they will.
The East Coast team I deal with is different than yours, but they have never tried to rush things through with fewer than two fittings. In fact, I think I have had at least three on everything they have made for me, though I hope on my next suit, two will be enough. That said, they have also taken things back after delivery to redo if I thought something was off; I assume your H representatives will do the same for you.

[Renfield]

[...]....AND to the thread.... that cloth need not be shrunk.

If this is a dig at me, then you are way off the mark. I have had dozens upon dozens of suits made over several decades and only repeat what the tailors I have used tell me.

In that post I gave the reasons why the tailors I have used do not think that cloth in their opinion needs to be 'shrunk' again. This is based on their experience, I repeat, their experience. You are free to disagree with this based on your experience.

However, you do seem to have an unfortunate penchant for bad mouthing either directly or by implication any persons, including tailors and cloth merchants who do not agree with you or have a differing viewpoint. Your treatment of Lessers being a case in point.

I am being polite, when I say, that I consider this strange behaviour from someone who wishes to keep their 'craft' alive which given your given your experience and obvious passion is a shame.

I rather suspect that this will be my last post on here.

[NJS]

It's so far off, that it seems like a joke. In fact, many similar complaints seem like a joke. Are you real? You have the money to go to Huntsman. They surely have the skill to deliver. Why accept such an abortion of tailoring in the first place? It sounds like 'more money than sense' to me because any RTW trousers would be fitted better with a reasonable sales' assistant.

[davidhuh]

Dear Renfield,

it may well be that you are not looking for a reaction from another simple member here. However, I think it is helpful not to take anything personal here. If we do so, we react simply guessing what the poster might have intended to say... It is as helpful as, let me use an example, requesting a lab test without having a stringent hypothesis. We would in this case run the risk to generate new "facts" that are based on the wrong assumptions.

The tailor you criticise may be a passionate man who says what he thinks. As I personally like honest people, I can handle his passion and value his expertise. What he said about Lesser did not hinder me to commission a suit with Lesser 16 oz cloth...

Best regards,
David

[alden]

In that post I gave the reasons why the tailors I have used do not think that cloth in their opinion needs to be 'shrunk' again.

Renfield

I'll tell you a funny story about shrinking cloth. I was in Naples more than a decade ago and visited one of the great tailors there who was in his mid seventies (since passed away.) He was a cranky old guy but somehow we hit it off and had a few laughs. I had a piece of good UK cloth with me and decided to have him make a jacket of it. I said I was only in town for a few days would have loved to get a first fit done quickly if possible. He smiled, made a quick telephone call and said, "how about we measure you and then you can sit here while I cut and sew up your coat and we will do the first fit right now!" He was gleaming and I was happy at the prospect of a pretty unique sartorial experience. As we prepared to get going on the job a cloud came over his face as he looked at my cloth."Damn, damn, damn", he said."We have to shrink your cloth overnight before I can cut it!" I replied that these were great English goods etc. but he was adamant about it. His language would have made old henry blush. So I got to see how one shrinks cloth in the old time Neapolitan way instead. And late the next afternoon, the old tailor cut my clothes while I watched. Coat is still great, wear it once and awhile, mainly at home, mainly for the memories.

All the Italian tailors I have known, the old timers, the best ones, shrank their cloth. They still do to this day. And all Italian shirt makers I have known bar none shrink their cloth. Maybe there is something to it. I profess not to be an expert. My UK tailor uses a method similar to shrinking the cloth but it does not get the full bath.

It could be that the Italians are taught one way and others are taught another way. But I can very much understand, from my experience in Naples, that someone taught by old Sicilian tailors (like old henry) would have shrinking of cloth engrained into them.

There are many steps in the traditional process of bespoke that have been deemed unnecessary by modern makers. Lapel work, collars, sleeves and armholes, we learn do not need handwork. The machine is fine. As a matter of fact, hand work itself is deemed tedious, time consuming, expensive and hence, unnecessary. So in that kind of context, what would we imagine the fate of shrinking cloth?

Cheers

Michael

[NJS]

In that post I gave the reasons why the tailors I have used do not think that cloth in their opinion needs to be 'shrunk' again.

Renfield

I'll tell you a funny story about shrinking cloth. I was in Naples more than a decade ago and visited one of the great tailors there who was in his mid seventies (since passed away.) He was a cranky old guy but somehow we hit it off and had a few laughs. I had a piece of good UK cloth with me and decided to have him make a jacket of it. I said I was only in town for a few days would have loved to get a first fit done quickly if possible. He smiled, made a quick telephone call and said, "how about we measure you and then you can sit here while I cut and sew up your coat and we will do the first fit right now!" He was gleaming and I was happy at the prospect of a pretty unique sartorial experience. As we prepared to get going on the job a cloud came over his face as he looked at my cloth."Damn, damn, damn", he said."We have to shrink your cloth overnight before I can cut it!" I replied that these were great English goods etc. but he was adamant about it. His language would have made old henry blush. So I got to see how one shrinks cloth in the old time Neapolitan way instead. And late the next afternoon, the old tailor cut my clothes while I watched. Coat is still great, wear it once and awhile, mainly at home, mainly for the memories.

All the Italian tailors I have known, the old timers, the best ones, shrank their cloth. They still do to this day. And all Italian shirt makers I have known bar none shrink their cloth. Maybe there is something to it. I profess not to be an expert. My UK tailor uses a method similar to shrinking the cloth but it does not get the full bath.

It could be that the Italians are taught one way and others are taught another way. But I can very much understand, from my experience in Naples, that someone taught by old Sicilian tailors (like old henry) would have shrinking of cloth engrained into them.

There are many steps in the traditional process of bespoke that have been deemed unnecessary by modern makers. Lapel work, collars, sleeves and armholes, we learn do not need handwork. The machine is fine. As a matter of fact, hand work itself is deemed tedious, time consuming, expensive and hence, unnecessary. So in that kind of context, what would we imagine the fate of shrinking cloth?

Cheers

Michael

All fair enough - but the fact remains that a customer who is paying top of the range prices, for a Huntsman suit, should be able to expect that it fits. Friends of mine don't have any complaints. Period. The fact that this suit does not fit, is indicative of alleged appalling service. No bespoke tailoring customer should have to be an expert on cloth treatment! Even if the bespeaker had been on a MacDonald's binge, between fittings, they should not have let him walk out looking like Fatty Arbuckle in his smaller brother's clothes! The trouble seems to be that, if the fruitcakes who post ill-fitting garments like this are right (posing the question: "does my bum look big in this?"), then, through the patronage of over-paid, clueless, young customers, combined with an arrogant disregard for proper service, for people that they (maybe, rightly, despise), Savile Row is writing its own obituary. From my own experience, I suspect that many posters of such abortions of fit and taste, allegedly from Savile Row tailors, are TROLLS, with some very generous RTW sponsors.

[old henry]

I do so hope this is not Renfields last post. I feel terrible.
And Dempsey seems like a good square trusting fella and he deserves a NEW suit. Shattuck F

[NJS]

I do so hope this is not Renfields last post. I feel terrible.
And Dempsey seems like a good square trusting fella and he deserves a new suit. Shattuck F

Maybe he's after a freebie - as so many i-gents are! otherwise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83ozOX9l ... re=related

[dempsy444]

NJS:

I can't even sew a button so trust me, I am not trolling. The idea makes me chuckle really. Unfortunately, Huntsman made the bespoke suit. I look forward to giving the tailor the opporunity to correct the mistake and for the firm to show they respect me and my business, and their name. I think they call that English pride or something. If not, yes, though not rich, I do make more money then I disserve and I will manage. The world has seen greater victims. Since this is a sartorial site though, I thought I would share my experience, so that others can see the real risks even at a firm that claims to "fit the best, dress the best and expect the best."

I think if Newt Gingrich were to join LL, they would be your posts. So much bluster and indignation in all directions. Have you been training on Style Forum?

[old henry]

You are a good man Dempsey. We will figure this out for you somehow. It is not right and you deserve a good suit. Thank you for the post. FS

[dempsy444]

Thanks, Frank. You are much appreciated.

[hectorm]

Horror pictures, the genesis of a documentary, an old grunge about shrinking, accusation of possible trolling, traveling bullshitting tailors, last post ever, warnings, apologies, RTW conspiracy theory, Neapolitan anecdotes,....... Gentlemen, we have overdone ourselves (once more).
Dempsy, here's another fine (nice) mess you've gotten us into with your innocent question.

[NJS]

NJS:

I can't even sew a button so trust me, I am not trolling. The idea makes me chuckle really. Unfortunately, Huntsman made the bespoke suit. I look forward to giving the tailor the opporunity to correct the mistake and for the firm to show they respect me and my business, and their name. I think they call that English pride or something. If not, yes, though not rich, I do make more money then I disserve and I will manage. The world has seen greater victims. Since this is a sartorial site though, I thought I would share my experience, so that others can see the real risks even at a firm that claims to "fit the best, dress the best and expect the best."

I think if Newt Gingrich were to join LL, they would be your posts. So much bluster and indignation in all directions. Have you been training on Style Forum?

I just do not understand how it came about: why they let you take it away in that state and why you didn't decline the garment. In a sense, you are both at fault. If I had taken something like that, the last thing that I would do is display it on a website!

On a more serious note: people consciously making more money "than they deserve" is exactly where the rot is in the modern world and is exactly why chaps get fobbed off by tailors with twisted tat made out of inferior schmutter.

[alden]

Gentlemen, we have overdone ourselves (once more).
Dempsy, here's another fine (nice) mess you've gotten us into with your innocent question.

Ha ha! And the LL has been called the "most civil" place on the net! More often the members here get criticized for being too polite and phlegmatic.

(Sound of a pounding gavel vibrating in the halls of Parliment)

....To order, to order gentleman! The right honorable dempsey444 has had a dicey first bespoke experience. The offending party, his tailor, should correct the problem as indicated by the right honorable Dopey! Let's cease and desist and let reparations be made. A full declaration of hostilities can be evoked if a suitable solution is not found by the parties in question.

But in the meantime, another story http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... 560#p61560

Cheers