The plague of publicity

"The brute covers himself, the rich man and the fop adorn themselves, the elegant man dresses!"

-Honore de Balzac

Rowly
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Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:51 pm

The irony is that the best suit a man can possibly acquire is a true benchmade suit made by one man. The experience of having one craftsman measure, cut, fit and finish a garment for you by hand is without rival. I would not have my clothes made any other way.
I doubt you would get this service on the Row nowadays. I would say that the travelling services are the complete antithesis of it, in fact. In some ways I think the true ethos of the row has been corrupted by one-off clients who require only the prestige and self gratification of having something bespoken from the famous row. If these Bespoke Tourists come trophy collectors are happy to pay for the Brand Label that the row suggests, without demanding the quality that the name alludes to, then they are contributing to the demise of quality.
Even for shoes...( like the clothes) the clicker is sent the shoes by post, then they are posted off to the closer etc, and some of these men never meet each other , never mind the client.
I do believe he is also including the rapidly decaying Savile Row with their neo-non-tailors and their arrogant front men. English cloth is suffering the same decay.
Yes Frank, Neo-non tailors...and working for neo-non clients. There is nothing that will inspire a tailor more to do good work than a discerning client who knows what he wants and knows the value of his tailor...treats him with the same respect he expects to be treated with...and is sensitive enough to be pleased and satisfied with the charming imperfection that lies at the threshold of what is humanly possible.
It used to be the norm that no label would be put on display in a bespoke suit. They were not required by real men who wanted real suits made from real cloth by real men. It is up to us to ensure the continuance of good tailoring by insisting on it and supporting it when we find it. Savile Row must decide whether they want to be in the clothing Industry or whether the Savile Row Experience would be better classified as in the Entertainment Business.
fontana1
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Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:12 pm

May I dare speak a word in favor of my (well known) SR house....I visit my cutter at least once a month, never feel pressure from the staff to make a commission, have my questions regarding cloth and cut answered with clarity and patience, have required alterations taken care of promptly. Things are of course not perfect, but I am satisfied as a customer of this house. Maybe I am the exception....I would be very tempted to try one of those nameless craftsmen who cut and tailor the product from beginning to end...
hectorm
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:40 am

alden wrote:...the best suit a man can possibly acquire is a true benchmade suit made by one man. The experience of having one craftsman measure, cut, fit and finish a garment for you by hand is without rival.
Its been nearly ten years now that I have advised readers to seek out craftsmen who still make benchmade clothing...while they are still around.
Renouncing to the SR experience and embarking in this search for the best craftsmen alive is not just a romantic quest for the sake of a fading art. For many bespoke aficionados like myself -and forgive me for bringing up the boring topic of money- it has an important economic consideration as well. At current prices of four thousand pounds or more for a bespoke suit in a mecca like Huntsman in SR or Fioravanti in the US, we are ready to make repeat visits to remote places like Buenos Aires, Cairo or Palermo. And there establish long term personal relationship with unsung old school masters of the trade who would measure, cut, fit and finish the garment by hand with splendid results. "Bespoke tourists" as Rowly likes to call them (I skip the "come trophy collectors" part) travel in both directions now.
Rowly
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:07 am

Its been nearly ten years now that I have advised readers to seek out craftsmen who still make benchmade clothing...while they are still around. Forget the ads, forget the publicity, burn some shoe leather and find the real stuff.
we are ready to make repeat visits to remote places like Buenos Aires, Cairo or Palermo. And there establish long term personal relationship with unsung old school masters of the trade who would measure, cut, fit and finish the garment by hand with splendid results. "Bespoke tourists" as Rowly likes to call them (I skip the "come trophy collectors" part) travel in both directions now.
I'm sure there are no Bespoke Tourists in the LL, and by tourist I do not mean simply those who travel. If you travel to far off places in true pursuit of your passion for good tailoring, then you are burning your shoe leather in the right way..and well done !

By Bespoke Tourists, I simply refer to those who want things simply because they can afford them, and have no true regard or appreciation for them. These people are the targets for Marketeers and it is we who have to suffer the resulting drop in quality.
dempsy444
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:42 am

Rowly wrote: By Bespoke Tourists, I simply refer to those who want things simply because they can afford them, and have no true regard or appreciation for them. These people are the targets for Marketeers and it is we who have to suffer the resulting drop in quality.
One either takes pride in his work or he doesn't. While I get the spirit of what you say, in other industries "tourists" are called first time customers and it's up to the business to turn them into regulars. While some customers may have no regard for the art and just want the ability to say they are wearing a suit from the Row, that shouldn't be a relevant factor in the quality of the work. I can see someone getting upset that these people help drive up prices but not sure why it should affect quality. If it does, that is a problem with the Row, not the customer.
Rowly
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:00 am

Indeed, but if they are tempted to drive up profits by cutting quality for customers who will accept anything as long as it's from SR...then, the problem continues. This is what happens with celebrity chefs , as already mentioned...and it is commonplace nowadays, unfortunately.
shredder
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:27 pm

Someone mentioned equity, but one look at a balance sheet will reveal that there would be no equity without sufficient custom. Even intangible assets require revenue (and potential revenue) to be of any value. Given what appears to be a resurgence in men's apparel business, more men appear to be spending quite a bit on clothing these days. Such purchases include very expensive factory made 'tailored garments' (trade term for suits, jackets, trousers and overcoats) from famous brand names. These price points often match or exceed those of proper bespoke garments, whether from a famous SR house or a hidden gem of a tailor. Given the activities in the menswear market, it seems sensible for bespoke tailoring houses to let themselves known to those with the wherewithal to be viable customers today (as opposed to browsers who may or may not become a customer in several years).

No bespoke tailor will be able to attract consumers seeking instant gratification. However, there is hope in attracting others so that the trade can continue to survive and perhaps even flourish by building awareness of themselves and their products. Of course, I do not believe that one can appreciate the true value of bespoke until one has had the chance to actually wear one, so it is a bit of a chicken or egg game. That said, without awareness, there is no start.

One of the biggest handicaps that SR and other tailoring houses seem to have is the sense of intimidation felt by the interested or curious but uninitiated. Dispelling such perception is, admittedly, tricky business because it is so easy to be seen as an effort to dumb things down or going down market. Furthermore, some existing customers feel uneasy about their tailors becoming more of a household name because, I suspect, it would make them feel less special or 'in the know'. When these customers with delicate self esteem are dead, they will need to be replaced not just by their spawns but also by new ones, many of them yet to be initiated.

Some appear to think that a drive for customer acquisition necessarily leads to a decline in quality. Interesting notion, but I tend to think that the causal relationship might exist elsewhere.

There is much concern about the lack of new talent entering the trade. And, one must remember that it is first and foremost a trade. However, without healthy custom and without awareness of the trade, there will be no incentive for new talents to enter the trade. There seems to be an undercurrent of not wishing the firms to grow in business for fear of a downward spiral instead of a virtuous circle of increased revenue, increased apprentices entering the trade, increased interest in bespoke products. It is somewhat ironic that some of the frequent comments, implied or otherwise, heard from smaller firms is that they do not have enough business to take on apprentices even if there were to be interested young guns.

Are any of the 'old guard' SR firms of a size comparable or larger than their heyday prior to the advent of ready made suits? I know the answer, but perhaps it's irrelevant today?

There is a difference between making noise and attracting consumer interest intelligently through education about the craft, the art and the user satisfaction that follows. Some do it better than others. However, I do not think that being mute is a viable option. The last time they were mute, some cretin named Giorgio described them as being irrelevant. The unfortunate part is that at the time Giorgio was not off the mark all that much.
alden
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:56 pm

There is a difference between making noise and attracting consumer interest intelligently through education about the craft, the art and the user satisfaction that follows. Some do it better than others.
I agree with a good deal of what you say here and especially the above since there are a few SR houses doing a fine job at communicating responsibly.

But I have seen a strong uptick in the last year or so in complaints about shoddy work and rushed (and equally shoddy) service from young men who have heard the SR siren’s song, made the leap and wound up with a mouthful of shattered teeth as thanks. That tells me that the houses are creating more demand than they can handle. That is bad business in any business. And that means they are not communicating well.
Some appear to think that a drive for customer acquisition necessarily leads to a decline in quality. Interesting notion, but I tend to think that the causal relationship might exist elsewhere.
I think it is rather too much customer acquisition that directly leads to the inability of firms to deliver at appropriate quality levels consistently.

We know what goes into making a quality bespoke garment. It is not something that can be made industrially or on a large scale. By definition, it has to remain artisanale to remain genuine. If bespoke stops being genuine, as Frank and Chris warn, it risks losing its cache. If it does that it loses old clients and new ones.

A few years ago, SR made it clear they wanted to attract the young financial wizs in the city to bespoke. So they hired fashion writers, advertised like fashion brands and set about the task to rival fashion. They succeeded. These young guys now come and order a dozen suits that SR can’t make. Bravo. If I only had a lingot for every time I heard this refrain, ‘Look I tried bespoke from a great firm and the clothes did not work at all. I am going back to RTW, at least I know what I am getting and am treated well.” It is better not to have that customer than damage your trade’s goodwill by selling to him.

Yes, there are factories making excellent mass produced garments in America and Italy. I have visited them and they are first rate operations. But they are not making hand crafted, benchmade, custom clothing.

In the days before RTW, the factories must have been similar to the large ones we see today. There are rows upon rows of tailors sitting at sewing machines, others doing some hand work and others finishing on a well designed assembly line. But alongside those factories, there were the smaller, more quality operations on Savile Row. Even though they were bigger and produced more garments a year than today, they were not factories in any sense of the word. They were ateliers. And they were set up to deliver more garments at the quality levels consistent with their place at the top of the market. That is simply not the case today.

Bespoke cannot compete with fashion. And fashion cannot compete with bespoke. They are two different business models, with their own cost structures and distribution methods. Fashion has zero product cost and high marketing costs. Their supply, at consistent quality levels, is like water running from a faucet. Open it when you need to, close it when you need to. And the distribution channel for these general commodity products is well founded and efficient.

Bespoke has large infrastructure, materials and productions costs in house that cannot be easily outsourced. To maintain margins were they need to be they cannot spend a great deal on marketing unless they want to operate at a loss. The supply of materials and finished product at consistent quality levels is uncertain and difficult. Bespoke has no established routes to market except inefficient traveling tailor schemes that lose more new clients than they gain. (Tough love but that is the truth.)

You cannot put a niche, high value product into generalist distribution. To do so you have to change your value and cost model and enter the lower value levels. That is what some of us fear is happening.
From personal point of view, I am indifferent since I am not their customer. But I do think it is a shame we lose the cache of the institutions.

Cheers

Michael
NJS

Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:23 pm

The prevailing notion that top-end businesses 'intimidate' potential customers annoys me because it invariably leads to a process of dumbing-down that destroys part of the essence of the businesses. No 50 St James's Street was a casino owned by Genting PLC. The building was purpose-built for Thomas Crockford in the 1820s and was one of the first such places. Endowed with a magnificent interior, including enormous chandaliers, the building later did service as the Jamaican High Commission and as the clubhouse for the Devonshire Club. It reverted to being a casino. In the early 2000s the owner decided that, to avoid 'intimidating' potential and financially 'worthwhile' members, they would remove the chandaliers and replace them with twisted silk: what a mess!
Rowly
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:30 pm

That is twisted :(
shredder
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:52 pm

Hi Michael,
Some firms are obviously very poor at communicating, especially when it comes to handling the increased order volume, as you mentioned. Broadly, they have 3 choices: not to accept new orders until there is a balance between makers and orders, tell the customer that because of increased demand they will need more time to complete the order properly, or just deliver a quick but shoddy product. The third bit has long term adverse effect and is a concern.

As you say, it seems that some firms' customer acquisition is getting ahead of their ability to deliver within the customary lead times. However, I am not sure if the percentage of dissatisfied customers as a proportion of all customers, which appears to have increased in the last couple of years, have increased. Is it a relative increase rather than an absolute increase? It does seem that way, but I don't know.

On whether bespoke competes with fashion, and vice versa, I disagree even though I agree that they are different business models, polar opposites actually. In the realm of discretionary purchases, they do compete even if they cannot compete in terms of margin structure and therefore marketing and distribution strategies. As a case in point, you mention a case of disappointed bespoke customers returning to RTW. Some have crossed from RTW to bespoke and stayed (which appears to be the happy case amongst many LL members, SR or elsewhere). That is competition, in my view. However, if bespoke tried to engage in a shouting match with RTW or tried to behave like RTW, then the result is obvious. Trying to be like someone else is usually not a very healthy thing to do, so an indication of such behaviour is, indeed, troubling.

It is a shame that some of these firms appear not to live up to their reputation, but it is a tragedy that one firm's failure can damage the reputation of the whole neighbourhood or even the whole trade. The attempt at inductive logic can run amok very easily amongst the masses.

The first lesson on issues/crisis/reputation management ought to be, don't cock up to start with, rather than the identification of stakeholders and assessment of risks. But then, they wouldn't teach that, would they? :D

s
alden
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:07 pm

But then, they wouldn't teach that, would they? :D
:D ....No.

I expect the firms are investing to meet the new demand and there has got to be a very skilled and merciless bean counter hired by the new owners (they all seem to have new owners) screaming that carrying costs are eating into already slim margins, "so get those blasted suits out the door, to their owners and get me some cash!" I can hear it. So the number of fittings is reduced to one or two (even for new clients) and the kit gets sent out the door. Do you see how the model has changed? Its now really "glorified MTM" as Frank likes to call it.

Now I am sure the clients would be happy to wait and go through the entire bespoke process according to the rules of the art, but our beanman won't be happy with that at all, will he? The next step on the slippery slope is clear...why do we do fittings at all? Why not just ship the stuff? Before you know it you are RTW.

Cheers
shredder
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:10 pm

NJS wrote:The prevailing notion that top-end businesses 'intimidate' potential customers annoys me because it invariably leads to a process of dumbing-down that destroys part of the essence of the businesses.
I never understood this whole notion of being intimidated. It's just a shop/lodging/whatever. I have a suspicion that those who claim to be intimidated actually have no potential to be a customer at all, ever. However, if you have enough of these irrelevant punters saying the same thing, then people start believing it as truth... And then, they run off doing really dumb things, like dumbing down.
Merc
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:24 pm

the trick in business is this

expand your business to the maximum size possible without losing the motivating spirit of the enterprise

thats a tough trick; its not an easy balance to achieve, for people make decisions as they go along and sometimes (or not) realize later that due to cumulative motion they've lost something
even easier for that slippage to occur under a new owner who may not really have possession of the original motivating spirit of the enterprise.
shredder
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Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:36 pm

Merc wrote:the trick in business is this

expand your business to the maximum size possible without losing the motivating spirit of the enterprise

thats a tough trick; its not an easy balance to achieve, for people make decisions as they go along and sometimes (or not) realize later that due to cumulative motion they've lost something
even easier for that slippage to occur under a new owner who may not really have possession of the original motivating spirit of the enterprise.
Spot on. The same risk exists when a family business gets passed on to the next generation. As you say, easier said than done. As Michael said, if you have a bean counter in charge, then you have an even bigger challenge.
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