Reasonable timescales for bespoke?

[tteplitzmd]

I would forgive minor errors on the first iteration, and in fact have, but not a repeat with poor timeliness, poor workmanship, aggressive pricing, and an apparent inability to "learn" in the technical sense, from previous experience.

[Scot]

I would forgive minor errors on the first iteration, and in fact have, but not a repeat with poor timeliness, poor workmanship, aggressive pricing, and an apparent inability to "learn" in the technical sense, from previous experience.

I trust you hold yourself to the same standards.

[hectorm]

.... a repeat with poor timeliness, poor workmanship, aggressive pricing, and an apparent inability to "learn" in the technical sense, from previous experience.

Is such a tailor still in business?
If he is, it´s not his fault but his client´s.

[tteplitzmd]

.... a repeat with poor timeliness, poor workmanship, aggressive pricing, and an apparent inability to "learn" in the technical sense, from previous experience.

Is such a tailor still in business?
If he is, it´s not his fault but his client´s.

There are lots of them, they fall off the trees. You can find them on and off Savile Row.

[Charlie]

I've been following the threads for some time but just recently joined. Just following through the posts, I agree you invariably have to give a relationship between your tailor some time to deliver/develop but if the tailor's complacent to your detriment- close the relationship like a book and move on.

[hectorm]

There are lots of them, they fall off the trees. You can find them on and off Savile Row.

In that case, their clients are to blame.
Wouldn´t you agree that an educated clientele (in all the senses) makes for better tailors?

[Costi]

I would forgive minor errors on the first iteration, and in fact have, but not a repeat with poor timeliness, poor workmanship, aggressive pricing, and an apparent inability to "learn" in the technical sense, from previous experience.

That sounds pretty fair to me. What is important, in my view, is to give both sides a chance to learn - even from their own mistakes. That means NOT repeating them, of course. It should be a LEARNING curve, an ascending spiral, not a ride straight down to hell.

[hectorm]

What is important, in my view, is to give both sides a chance to learn - even from their own mistakes. That means NOT repeating them, of course. It should be a LEARNING curve, an ascending spiral, not a ride straight down to hell.

Agreed. It cuts both ways. I confess that in my lifetime with bespoke I have made more mistakes than my tailors have. Poor choices of fabrics, too much attachment to the current fashions specially in my 20s and 30s, selecting styles according to what they looked in models and not on me, all this and more is my fault, and not my tailors' (who even tried sometimes to discourage me). From my side I realize now that it was a costly learning curve indeed, but I have enjoyed the ride.

[davidhuh]

I confess that in my lifetime with bespoke I have made more mistakes than my tailors have. Poor choices of fabrics, too much attachment to the current fashions specially in my 20s and 30s, selecting styles according to what they looked in models and not on me, all this and more is my fault, and not my tailors' (who even tried sometimes to discourage me). From my side I realize now that it was a costly learning curve indeed, but I have enjoyed the ride.

Dear Hectorm,

thank you for refreshing honesty - this may apply to most of us. My list of sins is endless, and I prefer to keep it private, unless somebody is in desperate need of a good laugh

cheers, david

[Charlie]

Yes its nice to know that everyones capable of making mistakes in the world of bespoke, gives you a feeling of solidarity.

[castiglione]

A well meaning advice after a whole life into bespoke as a customer. No procrastination, no rush. The sure way to disaster in matters sartorial is to go to your taylor and tell him either "I will be here in six months for the second fitting" or the opposite "Have everything ready for tomorrow, we go for the finish in a few days" Contrarywise if the taylor lags it may mean it has too many customers or simply that you are of no serious commercial value to him. In this case I would go for a less ilustrious name but a more accessible one. Do not waste your time in case you find your choice too nose up. Unless you become the fashionable DA or something of the kind your case is lost. In general try to be humble without being submissive. He is the pro but not the master-like any of the experts you use in your daily legal practice. Turn your ignorance to your advantage by being honest. Say the truth. Admit that perhaps you do not know what you want or that you are at loss of words to describe your target or that fabrics are his trade. No taylor in his right mind would turn down a young prospective life long customer. Unless he has too many customers well above you and everybody else. Or that the prospective customer seems to be a fool. (Sure thing this is not the case with you) So be wise and good luck. It takes a bit of empathy and emotional intelligence. Plus some knowledge of the human nature. Nothing that departs from the normal practice of (law) life.

[hectorm]

Turn your ignorance to your advantage by being honest. Say the truth. Admit that perhaps you do not know what you want.

True, but easier said than done, Castiglione.
The best suit I ever had was at age 15 when -as a Bday gift- my godfather took me to his illustrious tailor and told him to "cut a three piece in heavy Donegal so I could look presentable". The cutter asked me lots of questions but stopped asking when I answered "I don´t know" to all of them. In my ignorance I was overwhelmed by all the measurements taken and afterwards by all the fittings and pieces of cloth being stricken and torn from my body. But my honest ignorance paid off with the most magnificent suit. Was I just lucky?
Since then, having reduced my sartorial ignorance significantly, never have I surpassed that level of satisfaction which I think should have been the progressive way to go. Should I play ignorant once again or better yet, may be just admit real ignorance after all?

[castiglione]

Turn your ignorance to your advantage by being honest. Say the truth. Admit that perhaps you do not know what you want.

True, but easier said than done, Castiglione.
The best suit I ever had was at age 15 when -as a Bday gift- my godfather took me to his illustrious tailor and told him to "cut a three piece in heavy Donegal so I could look presentable". The cutter asked me lots of questions but stopped asking when I answered "I don´t know" to all of them. In my ignorance I was overwhelmed by all the measurements taken and afterwards by all the fittings and pieces of cloth being stricken and torn from my body. But my honest ignorance paid off with the most magnificent suit. Was I just lucky?
Since then, having reduced my sartorial ignorance significantly, never have I surpassed that level of satisfaction which I think should have been the progressive way to go. Should I play ignorant once again or better yet, may be just admit real ignorance after all?

For God´s sake, Hector. You were fifteen at the time braces were still like boxers, never to be shown, and you were admitted into the realm driven by a trusted customer, no less than your godfather. My advice was not addressed to anybody of your age or station. It was intended for a young american lawyer barely starting to climb the ladder- no godfather of course, no illustrious taylor, no shared past. I will tell you what I do after a life of bespoke. I let the taylor give me as much advice as he wants for he is the pro. And pros are always right. In some way or another. In your case I would say: Know how to use your taylor´s proficiency. Innecesary advice for from the height of your years and experience (I surmise) you know only too well how to do it. And you are doing it right now. Bet on that.

[Scot]

"A bit of empathy and emotional intelligence."

Yes, a little grace goes a long way!

[hectorm]

I let the tailor give me as much advice as he wants for he is the pro. And pros are always right. In some way or another... Know how to use your tailor´s proficiency.

Agree on this principle.
But my main point was that despite having reduced my sartorial ignorance (increased my own proficiency) never have I surpassed the level of satisfaction with a bespoke suit that I achieved when I was a complete ignorant on the subject. Granted, I have now more appreciation, enjoyment, sometimes even passion, for matters sartorial and the whole bespoke process (idea, research, execution, etc), but the results come, at best, just as expected. There is no surprise, no awe.
May be I´m too picky or spoiled. May be just human.