What do I do when my respected tailor does poor work?

[K-tie]

All

I am a client with a tailor at the row, not one of the big names, but someone who is respected and probably a member of the LL. My first suit was beautifully made and I was very pleased. The second one had some problems. As i do not live in England, I had it mailed to me after the agreed number of fittings. I know that this is not ideal, but there are no good tailors in my area, and I had good exeperience with my first suit. Hence, Ihad to return to London.

I do not visit London that frequently, and before I returned I also lost quite some weight. So I agreed with my tailor that I would bring both suits to have them adjusted. And so I did. The adjustments understandably required significant re-work, so I had to return to London again after several weeks. When I picked up the suits, I discovered that the adjustments had been terribly executed: the shoulder on one suit was twisted, the lapels were loose and hanging, sleeve lengths were way off etc. So the tailor has to do the job all over again. However, I live at another continent and do not know when I will return. In the mean time the tailor has charged my credit card for the work.

The experience with the tailor is not the only poor experience with the so-called artisans. I am a client with one of the big names in shirt making on Jermyn Street. After two very nice batches of shirts (although with some mix-ups of double vs barrel cuff on the second order), I returned for a new fitting after I lost weight. They then sent me the third batch made on the old measurements! So I had to return, only to be questioned quite harshly until they finally discovered that, yes - they had indeed made a mistake (no apologies, of course...).

In the LL I read about all the praise given to the artisans. As you can read from the above, my experience is quite different. You can argue that I should change tailor and shirtmakers, but this has been a couple of exhausting and frustrating experiences and I have spent a lot of money, not only on the clothes, but on all the travel as well. Further, the first work they did was very good, they just seemed to get sloppy as time passed (my tailor is not retiring in many years, so he can't blame it on age). I know it sounds mad, but I have returned to MTM because I am just scared off from the poor work done by the bespoke tailors and shirtmakers (again - both of the above are respected artisans, names that you encounter in this forum). Am I the only one with these experienes? Or are we too naive and forgiving in our praise of the so-called artisans?

[uppercase]

In the LL I read about all the praise given to the artisans. As you can read from the above, my experience is quite different. You can argue that I should change tailor and shirtmakers, but this has been a couple of exhausting and frustrating experiences and I have spent a lot of money, not only on the clothes, but on all the travel as well. Further, the first work they did was very good, they just seemed to get sloppy as time passed (my tailor is not retiring in many years, so he can't blame it on age). I know it sounds mad, but I have returned to MTM because I am just scared off from the poor work done by the bespoke tailors and shirtmakers (again - both of the above are respected artisans, names that you encounter in this forum). Am I the only one with these experienes? Or are we too naive and forgiving in our praise of the so-called artisans?

Your experience is not uncommon.

Others too are exhausted, tired and frustrated with their bespoke experiences, havng traveled and spent considerable amounts and come out with little to show for it.

You are mistaken though to write that here on LL reviews of tailors are only laudatory and not critical.

Anderson & Sheppard are, for example, notoriously inconsistent, occasionally good, often not so.

I can understand that you returned to MTM. I also have revisited MTM, following bespoke, and there is much to recommend.

You would hope that each bespoke suit from the same bespoke maker is better and better with each iteration. Indeed, this is the case with many tailors, though by no means, not with all.

If your tailor is inconsistent, leave him. That's it. He will only frustrate you and delay you from finding a good, consistent tailor.

Though there is nothing wrong whatsoever with MTM; a number of the best Savile Row tailors offer a MTM program and such programs offer a more consistent product at 1/2 the expense of bespoke. Plus, a MTM product, once perfected, will also save you from repeated travel for fittings and related expense which effectively doubles the cost of your bespoke suit.

btw, why won't you mention your tailor's name? LL is an open forum and all members' experiences, positive and negative, is welcome. It's also a civilized forum, so all criticism is measured and strives to be fair and balanced.

[All over the world]

My tailor has gone missing completely, I have no news about either my commission or when I am going to get the garment! That is far worse! They say in the old days customers were treated with a lot more respect. I don't know if that's true but nowadays customer service isn't exactly great anywhere.

[Simon A]

Living far from your tailor always introduces this risk, that it may take months, or a year, to get a suit "right". I would give him the opportunity to adjust the suit to meet your needs, even if it takes some time. Any artisan can have a bad day, and if given the opportunity to make a customer happy and send them out into the world in a well-cut suit, most will try to give you what you want.

I have to date not been able to take a suit home after two or three fittings, maybe I am just an odd shape. It is the courtesy and patience of the tailor, trying to get me a great fit and taking the time to do so, that keeps me coming back to him, rather than his ability to churn out perfectly fitting suits with minimum face time.

[andreyb]

Or are we too naive and forgiving in our praise of the so-called artisans?

Yes, we are.

It's very human: we very much like to boast around when things are good, but become very shy in other case... It requires some courage to say: "I just spent crazy amount of money on a new suit and the result is terrible". Also, bespoke tends to give birth to many "fans", who take any non-positive word on their tailor as a personal insult, and make any criticism almost impossible. Another obstacle: suppose that a tailor will read your critical thoughts on him/her... Not many people able to act gracefully in the face of public criticism. So, if you plan to continue to work with said tailor (for whatever reason -- want to give him/her another chance, need some previous commissions to get altered, etc), prepare for problems.

Thus, I always take glowing (especially over-glowing) reviews with a grain of salt. Knowing that lack of negativie opinions doesn't mean a bit.

Andrey

[Costi]

People make mistakes. Really, they do. All of US make mistakes. However, we'd think it unfair if our (professional) value were judged only by our latest mistake and we'd be named "so-called doctors", "so-called cooks" or "so-called lawyers". Fortunately, a tailor's mistakes cannot lead to death, intoxication or guiltless imprisonment. It's just a nuisance and a matter of time to make up for it (plus some traveling expenses in your case). I think the true measure of your tailor, as well as of your shirtmaker, is in the successful commissions that they delivered before: a bad tailor would be much too lucky to ever produce a good suit, but a good tailor CAN occasionally produce a bad suit. Perhaps he made the mistake of entrusting your suits to an alteration tailor who had not worked for him before and also the mistake of not checking on his work. Not excuses, but possible explanations of how a provenly competent artisan can mess up badly. Ditto with your shirtmaker, who doesn't seem to read very well (both sound like "administrative" mistakes, rather than actual tailoring mistakes).
Of course we do tend to idealize and romanticize the image of bespoke tailoring (as well as of ourselves in relation to it!), but I don't believe such situations should bring disillusionment with respect to the phenomenon of bespoke as a whole, as an experience you cannot trust: of course, you cannot trust it the way you trust the consistency of the products of an ISO-certified factory, but at least you can repair most of what goes wrong and change the "production" parameters any time. I mean, if a girl betrays your trust and disappoints you, it doesn't mean you'll never love another girl at all, does it? You might even come to love the very same girl again...

[old henry]

K-tie
Why dont you switch over Edwin and Mathew DeBoise at Steed Tailors ?
I have seen only good work from them. FS

[uppercase]

Or are we too naive and forgiving in our praise of the so-called artisans?

Yes, we are.

It's very human: we very much like to boast around when things are good, but become very shy in other case... It requires some courage to say: "I just spent crazy amount of money on a new suit and the result is terrible". Also, bespoke tends to give birth to many "fans", who take any non-positive word on their tailor as a personal insult, and make any criticism almost impossible. Another obstacle: suppose that a tailor will read your critical thoughts on him/her... Not many people able to act gracefully in the face of public criticism. So, if you plan to continue to work with said tailor (for whatever reason -- want to give him/her another chance, need some previous commissions to get altered, etc), prepare for problems.

Thus, I always take glowing (especially over-glowing) reviews with a grain of salt. Knowing that lack of negativie opinions doesn't mean a bit.

Andrey

I think that this very well summarizes the psychology of cheering for a tailor and defending him to the death.

Bespoke is often a huge mind game on the forums and the partisanship and discussions get to be a bit bizarro.

It's only rags, not warfare.

[Slewfoot]

K-tie
Why dont you switch over Edwin and Mathew DeBoise at Steed Tailors ?
I have seen only good work from them. FS

I agree assuming you live in an area on their travel schedule. My first sportcoat came in recently which is excellent. There are various reports about them online and it is very rare to hear anything negative.

[Occam's Razor]

To the OP, your Row experience is not suprising to me. Clear instructions deliberately ignored, handiwork reminiscent of Blue Peter presenters and poorly cut clothes with clear flaws are the bitter fruits from some of my former Row tailors. There is a certain interest in keeping bespoke tailoring alive but it should not be to the extent that consistently shoddy craftsmanship is thrusted onto unsuspecting clients without appropriate censure.

Edwin DeBoise (Steed) is a capable tailor and works up conventional, neutral looking suit or coat with a touch of drape very well. Much better than his former employers (not Sexton).

- OR

[davidhuh]

My tailor has gone missing completely, I have no news about either my commission or when I am going to get the garment! That is far worse! They say in the old days customers were treated with a lot more respect. I don't know if that's true but nowadays customer service isn't exactly great anywhere.

Dear AOTW,

is your tailor Paul Grassart? See this: http://stiffcollar.wordpress.com/2011/1 ... /#comments

cheers, David

[Rowly]

Recently, I was in a café beside Drakes on Clifford street and sat next to two Savile Row employees. I couldn't help overhear their conversation in which they enthusiastically agreed that the French are discerning customers and a pain to work for as they insist you get it right, whereas the Americans, they seemed to think, could be given and told any crap and they would swallow it hook, line and sinker. They were not even trying to be discreet with their remarks....draw your own conclusions.

[old henry]

I like the above post very much. I wonder how the French custom customer would feel about being shooed out the door with only two fittings?

[kolecho]

Recently, I was in a café beside Drakes on Clifford street and sat next to two Savile Row employees. I couldn't help overhear their conversation in which they enthusiastically agreed that the "discerning" customers and a pain to work for as they insist you get it right, whereas the "less informed", they seemed to think, could be given and told any crap and they would swallow it hook, line and sinker. They were not even trying to be discreet with their remarks....draw your own conclusions.

Fixed.

[Rowly]

Of course what they meant was

they enthusiastically agreed that the "discerning" customers are a pain to work for as they insist you get it right, whereas the "less informed", they seemed to think, could be given and told any crap

But I am reporting exactly what I heard(don't shoot the messenger)!......My understanding of what they meant was that by default, they would try to get away with as little service as possible, the quality dictated by the requirements of the customer wherever he is placed on the continuum of discernment. A quality tailor with integrity, as Frank will confirm, will give the best service he is capable of to the inexperienced novice as much as to his biggest customer, and will not treat anyone as a punter. This applies to all walks of life and not only tailoring.