My Mark Powell Dinner Suit
So I asked Mr. Mark Powell yesterday if he would kindly make my dinner suit. Starting with a cream jacket since my most imminent events are abroad this summer. It's a little improper, with silk facings (in a cream satin) and a peak lapel, nonetheless I have tried to keep to the rules of the beloved Black Tie guide.
It's a 3 piece, (who could resist an evening waistcoat?) with the trousers and waistcoat in midnight blue (does anybody buy black these days?) with satin facings.
A few things I wanted to know:
A backed evening waistcoat would traditionally be backed with silk or wool? I figure I will go with the silk for the sake of it being paired with a warm weather jacket, but please get back to me soon if this is the worst mistake ever.
The jetted pockets: satin or self facing on the trim?
Should I get my bow-tie made in midnight blue satin to match the lapels or else does anybody know somewhere where something like this would be available. Unfortunately I'm hoping for a sized one, so if anybody knows a good, reasonably priced bow-tie maker, I would be thankful.
Lastly, can anybody recommend me a good place for an evening shirt? I have a Gieves and Hawkes RTW attached wing collar shirt from a year back which I think is too formal (or as mr. Black Tie Guide will have me believe: worth nothing).
Also, Is it acceptable to wear an evening shirt with an entirely soft front? I have an Ozwald Boateng shirt in Pique cotton, with double cuffs and a button placket, but yes it has no bib area.
Sorry for the multitude of questions; they will solve my whole ordeal. I thank you all for your responses.
It's a 3 piece, (who could resist an evening waistcoat?) with the trousers and waistcoat in midnight blue (does anybody buy black these days?) with satin facings.
A few things I wanted to know:
A backed evening waistcoat would traditionally be backed with silk or wool? I figure I will go with the silk for the sake of it being paired with a warm weather jacket, but please get back to me soon if this is the worst mistake ever.
The jetted pockets: satin or self facing on the trim?
Should I get my bow-tie made in midnight blue satin to match the lapels or else does anybody know somewhere where something like this would be available. Unfortunately I'm hoping for a sized one, so if anybody knows a good, reasonably priced bow-tie maker, I would be thankful.
Lastly, can anybody recommend me a good place for an evening shirt? I have a Gieves and Hawkes RTW attached wing collar shirt from a year back which I think is too formal (or as mr. Black Tie Guide will have me believe: worth nothing).
Also, Is it acceptable to wear an evening shirt with an entirely soft front? I have an Ozwald Boateng shirt in Pique cotton, with double cuffs and a button placket, but yes it has no bib area.
Sorry for the multitude of questions; they will solve my whole ordeal. I thank you all for your responses.
Welcome to the Lounge! It looks like you have an eventful summer ahead
Nothing wrong with a 3 piece, except you may run very hot in summer. I had my cream dinner jacket made double breasted so I can do away with the waistcoat (I don't like cummerbunds). My waistcoat has a lining back (Bemberg rather than silk, in my case). Silk wears hot.
It might be a good idea to buy an extra 2 m of the midnight blue cloth to have a dinner jacket made to match the trousers and waistcoat. Even if you have it made later on, you'll get much more use of the suit in time than you will of the summer ensemble.
I like the rhetoric in "does anybody buy black these days?"
Pocket jettings in self cloth, of course - the idea of jetted pockets is to make them as inconspicuous as possible.
The bow tie may very well be black - your coat's facings are cream, right? And should you decide to drop the silk and go for self-cloth faced lapels, the bow tie issue is even simpler. See how simplifying things makes life easier?
A soft front shirt is not only acceptable, but advisable with a dinner suit and even more so with a cream dinner jacket. No special needs, not even the pique "Marcella" - it can be a simple white cotton shirt with double cuffs and a nicely cut turndown collar, with the buttons concealed behind the placket. I had a shirt made of fine linen for summer dinner wear, with a soft pleated bib so the ruffling of the linen looks natural - very breezy!
Nothing wrong with a 3 piece, except you may run very hot in summer. I had my cream dinner jacket made double breasted so I can do away with the waistcoat (I don't like cummerbunds). My waistcoat has a lining back (Bemberg rather than silk, in my case). Silk wears hot.
It might be a good idea to buy an extra 2 m of the midnight blue cloth to have a dinner jacket made to match the trousers and waistcoat. Even if you have it made later on, you'll get much more use of the suit in time than you will of the summer ensemble.
I like the rhetoric in "does anybody buy black these days?"
Pocket jettings in self cloth, of course - the idea of jetted pockets is to make them as inconspicuous as possible.
The bow tie may very well be black - your coat's facings are cream, right? And should you decide to drop the silk and go for self-cloth faced lapels, the bow tie issue is even simpler. See how simplifying things makes life easier?
A soft front shirt is not only acceptable, but advisable with a dinner suit and even more so with a cream dinner jacket. No special needs, not even the pique "Marcella" - it can be a simple white cotton shirt with double cuffs and a nicely cut turndown collar, with the buttons concealed behind the placket. I had a shirt made of fine linen for summer dinner wear, with a soft pleated bib so the ruffling of the linen looks natural - very breezy!
A wonderful response. I plan on getting the dinner jacket made eventually but as I figured I would probably go with the same tailor (furthermore every tailor in London seems to use the same materials) I needn't buy the material.
Cheers for the advice on the pockets; I thought as much, but I have a feeling that Mr. Powell loves his extravagance.
Also you have entirely solved my shirt dilemma which I am very thankful for.
The bow tie that I considered having made would be from the silk on the lapels of the waistcoat and trouser seams which is a midnight blue satin (although I can assure you it looks very dark). If not then I would like to know a good UK brand to get a black satin self-tie bowtie from (preferably sized).
Thanks
Cheers for the advice on the pockets; I thought as much, but I have a feeling that Mr. Powell loves his extravagance.
Also you have entirely solved my shirt dilemma which I am very thankful for.
The bow tie that I considered having made would be from the silk on the lapels of the waistcoat and trouser seams which is a midnight blue satin (although I can assure you it looks very dark). If not then I would like to know a good UK brand to get a black satin self-tie bowtie from (preferably sized).
Thanks
Last edited by ItsLouis on Fri May 20, 2011 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It may still be advisable to buy the extra 2m of midnight cloth as there may be colour variations between different bolts.
You really should buy the cloth now from the same bolt - colour variations always happen and you comment "(furthermore every tailor in London seems to use the same materials)" is far too sweeping and indeed is inherently inaccurate.
Perhaps too much silk? You might consider dropping the waistcoat lapels - that way you needn't worry about matching (the trouser braids are not in the vicinity of the bow tie). The cleaner design of a waistcoat without lapels will make the ensemble less busy - you have enough going on with the cream silk facings.ItsLouis wrote:The bow tie that I considered having made would be from the silk on the lapels of the waistcoat and trouser seams which is a midnight blue satin (although I can assure you it looks very dark).
I actually think midnight blue works better than black with a cream / ivory dinner jacket: it's a softer version of the pure black / pure white traditional sharp contrast typical of dinner wear. Black is still excellent as a dinner suit - though I admit I don't like it on myself.
I collected my Jacket today to jet off to California with. The fit is wonderful and the material beautiful. A few things that I'm going to have to have changed upon my return though:
Only 2 of the cuff buttons on either side function; for some reason the rear two are fakes which is annoying.
My link closure got made with a button on the reverse rather than simply two button holes through which to put a link.
My lapel lacks a buttonhole and flower loop.
Hopefully these will be easily resolved. It's a nuisance to have paid for such a thing as now I'm going to have to be the disgruntled customer. Mark is a lovely bloke and I can imagine that with the quick turn around, a few things got lost between him and the coat maker.
I'm not sure but I think the button hole wasn't moved down as I requested but there's now little I can do about that one; it still looks very nice of course.
Also, at my first fitting, he told me he wouldn't be able to find the cream facing that I wanted, and thus I chose a white silk instead, which looks nicer probably.
The waistcoat turned out very well. I kept the lapels but had them self-faced. He did well to make my waistcoat lapel more U rather than V shaped.
I will post pictures after I wear it to an event.
Only 2 of the cuff buttons on either side function; for some reason the rear two are fakes which is annoying.
My link closure got made with a button on the reverse rather than simply two button holes through which to put a link.
My lapel lacks a buttonhole and flower loop.
Hopefully these will be easily resolved. It's a nuisance to have paid for such a thing as now I'm going to have to be the disgruntled customer. Mark is a lovely bloke and I can imagine that with the quick turn around, a few things got lost between him and the coat maker.
I'm not sure but I think the button hole wasn't moved down as I requested but there's now little I can do about that one; it still looks very nice of course.
Also, at my first fitting, he told me he wouldn't be able to find the cream facing that I wanted, and thus I chose a white silk instead, which looks nicer probably.
The waistcoat turned out very well. I kept the lapels but had them self-faced. He did well to make my waistcoat lapel more U rather than V shaped.
I will post pictures after I wear it to an event.
That's standard procedure. You may request to have all four functional (or none at all), but I don't expect you'll ever actually USE them, so you might as well let them be.ItsLouis wrote:Only 2 of the cuff buttons on either side function; for some reason the rear two are fakes which is annoying.
That's, again, standard procedure. What kind of "link" are you thinking of using? It would have to be two buttons sewn together with a longer thread. To avoid losing such a "link", one of the buttons is sewn to the front of the coat and the other is attached with the longer thread on the reverse. It can even come in handy if you lose a little weight, as you can button normally (without using the 'back' button)ItsLouis wrote:My link closure got made with a button on the reverse rather than simply two button holes through which to put a link.
Putting a nice buttonhole in a satin-faced lapel is a bit more difficult. I have seen many dinner jackets without lapel buttonholes (even peak lapels). But your tailor will surely oblige if you request a buttonhole - don't worry about appearing "disgruntled" for that.ItsLouis wrote:My lapel lacks a buttonhole and flower loop.
Looking forward to it! And congratulations on your new suit!ItsLouis wrote:I will post pictures after I wear it to an event.
Thanks. I currently have such a link closure as you described but I would prefer essentially two button holes so that I can wear the jacket open without it looking odd and so that I can (in my wealthy future) close it with a metal link of some sort, or else just different faced buttons.
I will consider your advice on the cuff buttons but it is a little dissatisfying. I visited another tailor who used 4 functioning buttons per cuff and thus it was a surprise to me to have only 2.
As for the buttonhole on the lapel: I'm a boutonniere fan ever since the Atonement-inspired timothy everest shoot.
I will consider your advice on the cuff buttons but it is a little dissatisfying. I visited another tailor who used 4 functioning buttons per cuff and thus it was a surprise to me to have only 2.
As for the buttonhole on the lapel: I'm a boutonniere fan ever since the Atonement-inspired timothy everest shoot.
Regarding the button holes: I seem to remember asking a tailor the same question many years ago. He replied that having the top two non functioning allows you to fairly easily alter the cuff at a later date should you need to do this; And true enough I had cause to lengthen my cuffs some time later , and no trace of this operation remains.
I also agree that it might be a pity to spoil a nice silk facing with a buttonhole; but I suppose that if you always wear a boutonniere , the button hole will not be seen.
I also agree that it might be a pity to spoil a nice silk facing with a buttonhole; but I suppose that if you always wear a boutonniere , the button hole will not be seen.
SMCK, a nicely sewn buttonhole won't spoil the silk-faced lapel - Esquire illustrations are full of DJs (even shawl lapels) with bouttonnieres. However, not only is silk less forgiving when sewing a buttonhole, but it also puts it into evidence...
Louis, you might want to ask the tailor what he thinks about it.
Louis, you might want to ask the tailor what he thinks about it.
After some disappointing photos at the event I wore it to, I am trying to find an excuse to climb into the suit again. Mr. Powell happily obliged my requests as previously stated and so now, I can ornament my lapel with an exotic flower too. I am very excited about wearing the jacket again.
I will leave you to judge the tailoring once I have upped photos, but I must say that I am very happy with the suit, in particular the aesthetic of the waistcoat, the silhouette of the jacket (never before have I had a jacket hug my back as such) and of course the material itself.
Being my first experience of the bespoke world, I can't speak much comparatively, but with the competitive pricing (2600 for a 3 piece) and many endorsements, I must say that I am nothing but pleased with Mr. Powell. He's also very nice, funny, accomodating and just a little scary. Hopefully he won't break my legs.
Possible projects for the future: The dark dinner jacket (I'm thinking double breasted although I don't want to render my waistcoat unnecessary) and also a powder blue tux jacket a la chuck bass.
I should probably get a proper suit first though.
I will leave you to judge the tailoring once I have upped photos, but I must say that I am very happy with the suit, in particular the aesthetic of the waistcoat, the silhouette of the jacket (never before have I had a jacket hug my back as such) and of course the material itself.
Being my first experience of the bespoke world, I can't speak much comparatively, but with the competitive pricing (2600 for a 3 piece) and many endorsements, I must say that I am nothing but pleased with Mr. Powell. He's also very nice, funny, accomodating and just a little scary. Hopefully he won't break my legs.
Possible projects for the future: The dark dinner jacket (I'm thinking double breasted although I don't want to render my waistcoat unnecessary) and also a powder blue tux jacket a la chuck bass.
I should probably get a proper suit first though.
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Cummerbunds were adapted from Indian Court Sashes by British Officers while serving in India. The temperatures sometimes made it very uncomfortable to wear three pieces and that is how cummerbunds became acceptable in Black Tie. I would suggest having one made in the same silk as your bow tie. In my opinion it will be much more comfortable if you are going to any places where it gets really warm.
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