John Kent Odd Coat

[andreyb]

Gentlemen,

Here is an odd coat John Kent cut for me.



I post it here for two reasons:

1) To present an example of Mr Kent's work -- which, to my knowledge, is not readily available on the forums.
2) To solicit your feedback -- it proved to be extremely useful in the past.

This is the first coat John made for me. Cloth is W Bill shetland tweed. We had two fittings during my 10 days stay in London. Then I got the coat by mail, and noticed a few small problems after a couple of wearings. They were all agreed upon and fixed during my second visit to London. So, in effect I had something similiar to three fittings.

One interesting thing is the shape of the breast pocket. Initially, I disliked it (considering it to be too "squarish"), and wanted it to be changed. After discussion with John, though, I decided to give it a chance, and try for a year -- with the agreement that he will change the pocket (make it narrower) if I would still want so. John believes that this shape is more "old and traditional", "like they were in the 30s".

Andrey

[Concordia]

It does have rather a young-Prince-Charles look about it. Not bad at all, if you weren't dying to have something else.

How does it fit and handle under fire?

[cdo]

andreyb, I like it and think that it complements your build: the shoulder-line is not too square nor overly sloping, the chest is not too 'chesty' nor flat/tight and school-boyish and the waist is not too suppressed nor sack-like. But do you like the silhouette?

From experience, I say don't let tailor interpreted style features bother you too much. Bespoke is not RTW/OTR so why always have your garments styled to the same expected look?

- C

[andreyb]

It does have rather a young-Prince-Charles look about it. Not bad at all, if you weren't dying to have something else.

Well, according to what I heard, Prince Charles used to be a customer of Hawes & Curtis (until some "dispute of undisclosed nature"), and Kent used to work in H&C. I doubt John Kent even cut for the prince, but at least there are a few common [tailoring] genes.

How does it fit and handle under fire?

In a word (three words, actually ): I like it. But what do I know?

But do you like the silhouette?

Let me cautiously say "yes". But I strongly believe that in order to understand what silhouette works best for one's frame (and mindset), one has to try all the different silhouettes... which is scaringly expensive in bespoke world!

At least this coat is comfortable!

From experience, I say don't let tailor interpreted style features bother you too much. Bespoke is not RTW/OTR so why always have your garments styled to the same expected look?

Yep, I guess you are right.

Andrey

[Concordia]

Prince Charles used to be a customer of Hawes & Curtis (until some "dispute of undisclosed nature ...

Didn't he switch over to A&S when he married the first time? Diana was supposed to have some kind of influence over that. When he later dropped A&S for MTM copies, I knew his remarriage was imminent.

[Jordan Marc]

Andrey:

The John Kent coat is nicely tailored, though I'm not sure why client and tailor opted for three buttons rather than two which seems more appropriate for a tweed with overcheck for the country. What's going on with the latteral creases in the sleeves? Easy enough to fix, I suppose, and it wouldn't hurt to show a bit more of the cuffs on your shirt. Regarding the breast pocket, if you don't care for a patch
you might consider a barchetta, or little boat-shaped, welt pocket made from the patch remnant.

JMB

[andreyb]

Didn't he switch over to A&S when he married the first time?

I wish I know! Guess his father (Duke of Edinburgh) brought him to H&C. Then the son went on his own.

I'm not sure why client and tailor opted for three buttons rather than two which seems more appropriate for a tweed with overcheck for the country.

Hmmm... Why do you think two buttons is more appropriate for a tweed?

BTW, I plan to wear this coat in a city... I know, tradition dictates that "no brown [should be worn] in town", but still.

What's going on with the latteral creases in the sleeves?

This is a shetland tweed, which lacks structure and springness of cheviot. So, after a few hours of wearing (and a good lunch, with hands kept bented, occupied with a fork and a knife!) one gets such creases.

Nothing to worry about, in my opinion -- they are not permanent.

it wouldn't hurt to show a bit more of the cuffs on your shirt

In my opinion, this is strictly personal.

I like what Alden says on the topic, and deliberately chose sleeves length to be exactly like this.

Also, I don't like when a shirt sleeve becomes visible beyond one's cuff -- which sometimes happen with too short coat's sleeves.

Andrey

[Gruto]

A fine jacket. I would be happy with it. I am more concerned with the shirt. I think you would benefit from a higher collar. It would create a more harmonious over all effect.

[tteplitzmd]

Very nice in every respect. The shape and size of all three patch pockets give it distinction. The shetland cloth is very forgiving for active wear and use.

[Jordan Marc]

Andrey:

Whether it's a single-breasted three-piece suit or an odd coat, a three button stance is old-fashioned.
It foreshortens the sweep of the lapels and closes in the chest. A two-button arrangement is ideal and far more elegant. Example, if you're wearing a checked shirt, a tastefully patterned tie and a silk pocket square to accessorize an odd coat, it allows you to show what you can do with mixing different scales and textures of pattern-on-pattern, all of which should ideally co-mingle with the tweed coat.
Another example, if you choose to wear a V-neck sleeveless cashmere pullover with a cablestitch
weave and pair it with a plain textured white poplin shirt, a discreet patterned tie and a not so discreet
silk square, you can create another pleasing effect with your ensemble. Experiment. Be creative.

Regarding the amount of cuff you show, some prefer a scant quarter-inch to show (too stingy for my
taste), others prefer three-eights of an inch (neither here nor there), still others insist on a half-inch
(the choice of many of us who are taller than average). Under no circumstance should the sleeve of your shirt appear.

I'm still curious about the latteral creases in your coat sleeves. None of the coat sleeves on my shetland coats crease, which makes me wonder how John Kent constructed (or didn't) the sleeves of your coat.

JMB

[Concordia]

Whether it's a single-breasted three-piece suit or an odd coat, a three button stance is old-fashioned.
It foreshortens the sweep of the lapels and closes in the chest.

And this is a problem because...?

[alden]

Andrey

Nice coat. J Kent does a good job. Thanks for posting his work.

The ripples in the sleeve may come from the nature of that particular W Bill Shetland which is a bit airy. It is comfortable and light, but will wrinkle a bit. Give it a bit of steam. If anything, I would like to see more wrinkles in the coat.

As far as 2b vs 3b is concerned, its much ado about a button. But on grounds of being fearful of cold weather, I prefer the 3 for its better coverage on my chest, especially for odd tweed coats like yours. The 2 is best for summer coats, evening wear, or maybe business suits to be worn in the States (where it is preferred.) I am pretty neutral on the subject though my own wardrobe runs 10 to 1 in favor of the 3.

As regards the amount of shirt cuff shown, it looks about perfect to me, but you already knew that...

As far as the patches are concerned, are the two bottom pockets narrower at the top? And the breast pocket square? Or is it a photo illusion?

Cheers

Michael

[andreyb]

Whether it's a single-breasted three-piece suit or an odd coat, a three button stance is old-fashioned.
It foreshortens the sweep of the lapels and closes in the chest. A two-button arrangement is ideal and far more elegant. Example, if you're wearing a checked shirt, a tastefully patterned tie and a silk pocket square to accessorize an odd coat, it allows you to show what you can do with mixing different scales and textures of pattern-on-pattern, all of which should ideally co-mingle with the tweed coat.
Another example, if you choose to wear a V-neck sleeveless cashmere pullover with a cablestitch
weave and pair it with a plain textured white poplin shirt, a discreet patterned tie and a not so discreet
silk square, you can create another pleasing effect with your ensemble. Experiment. Be creative.

JMB, your arguments make sense. Granted, this model is definitely more "crooked" than a two-button one might be.

However, I still believe that desired amount of shirt / tie / sweater showing is very-very personal. Thus, there is no "golden" standard.

I'm still curious about the latteral creases in your coat sleeves. None of the coat sleeves on my shetland coats crease, which makes me wonder how John Kent constructed (or didn't) the sleeves of your coat.

To tell the truth, I asked John to make a smaller sleeve opening -- another personal thing. As a consequence, the circumference of the sleeve is relatively small, too. Perhaps this is the reason of the latteral creases. Still, I have a coat (made by another tailor) with similarly small (if not smaller) sleeve, but made from firmer (and heavier) cheviot cloth -- wrinkles do appear when I bend my arms, then immediately go away.

I am more concerned with the shirt. I think you would benefit from a higher collar. It would create a more harmonious over all effect.

The picture doesn't quite reveal the real picture ( ). For example, I tried to pull my head up -- to prepare for coming "cutting" of the head out of the picture.

Still, I think you are right here. Again, this is a blend of personal quirks (I often wear shirts sans tie, so it is desirable for the collar to work without a tie) and some history (I asked the shirtmaker to copy collar of my Budd shirt, which I was enamored with).

Said so, you made an excellent point -- another thing to ponder about. Thanks!

BTW, the shirt is made by Stephen Lachter.

Very nice in every respect. The shape and size of all three patch pockets give it distinction. The shetland cloth is very forgiving for active wear and use.

Terry, thanks for the kind words.

Andrey

[andreyb]

As regards the amount of shirt cuff shown, it looks about perfect to me, but you already knew that...

You can recognize many elements that I... ahem... borrowed from a certain Parisian gentlemen. For example, there is one button on each cuff -- but you already knew that...

As far as the patches are concerned, are the two bottom pockets narrower at the top? And the breast pocket square? Or is it a photo illusion?

Your eyes as sharp as ever! -- exactly, bottom pockets are curved, while top one is straight.

Good? Bad? Ugly?

John Kent said "this is how they were in 30s" -- and being educated on all things sartorial on the Lounge, I always take this as "the best it can be" -- sometimes slavishly so, it seems.

Andrey

[dopey]

Andreyb:

This looks great. I like the fit and, especially the pockets.
And as Alden noted, while I typically get my winter/fall suits with two buttons, I lean towards three (or one) for sportcoats.