Bespoke...the journey begins

[DrT]

Dear all,

this is my first post on the LL forums; nevertheless, I have been reading your contributions for quite some time and find them of great interest.

I recently turned 30, and have decide that the time has come to depart from Italian (Zegna) MTM and commence my journey into the realm of bespoke.

For my first project, I would be inclined to opt for something classic:
SB, two piece, two buttons, dark gray or navy.

With regards to the style of the suit, I was thinking about something towards the more structured/lean end of the scale.

If I understand correctly, ideal candidates for my project would be Huntsman and Richard Anderson. However, I would like to hear the suggestions of the more experienced gentlemen concerning my plan for my first bespoke suit and their advice on possible tailors, as I have no prejudice towards any of the SR houses or previously established allegiance.

Thank you very much.

[oxford]

Dear DrT,

I was in a very similar situation about a year or so back, turning 30 and planning to make the transition from MTM to full bespoke. As you may read have read in an earlier report that I posted on this forum, I decided to start with Norton & Sons because I liked their image. A traditional tailoring house being run by a young and enterprising chap who is regularly featured in glossy magazines like GQ - that sounded too tempting to look any further. I went with them and ended up utterly disappointed. The suit turned out not bad in the end, but as a bespoke rookie, I would have hoped for some guidance and great customer service, neither of which I got.

Being around 30 and never having bought a bespoke suit before, I got the impression that I was not taken as a serious customer and therefore not worth putting too much effort into it. I guess this problem is not specific to Norton & Sons, but for my next commission, I decided not to be focused too much on the image of a particular tailoring house. I ended up ordering my next suits and jackets from Welsh & Jefferies. They came highly recommended, and both their cutters (Malcolm Plews and James Cottrell) are outstandingly friendly and helpful. They took a rookie like me seriously, and not only was the experience so much better, but the suits turned out magnificent, too.

If they can make David Beckham look sophisticated and Prince Charles dynamic in their suits, they should be able to exceed your expectations, too. That said, there is nothing wrong with wandering around Savile Row and chatting to a couple of cutters in person before deciding on the tailor for your first commission. In my opinion, choosing a tailoring house should not necessarily only be a rational decision (great house style, great reputation, famous customers, great quality of garments or whatever you are looking for), but it should also FEEL right.

[levantine]

Just a few comments on the two posts above:

I tried huntsman and the result was mediocre, the collar flies off left and right.

If you like the huntsman look go to Richard Anderson. I am waiting for delivery of my first suit soon and I will let you know how it looks. So far I am very happy with the treatment.

As far as SR is concerned I have tried a few and A&S is my favorite one. I like their look and they also took me seriously from the first suit I ordered. And they were rewarded for it since I have been going back to them ever since!

Most tailors do not take seriously people who order their first suit since they assume that they are not going to be repeat customers. But also keep in mind that your relationship with a tailor will evolve over time. They will get to know you and your style better but they will also help you define your style. First suits never compare with subsequent ones.

One final word of advice. I assume you live in London. If you trave to any other city on a regular basis try to seek out any tailors in this city. You might be surprised with what you find. True they will need your guidance and you will have to make sure you show them what you want but in the end you will have great suits at a fraction of the London cost. And London tailors need to learn a lot on finishing and needlework.

After 20 years of bespoke-ing I believe that nothing bits the finesse and style a good Italian tailor. They will always be my first choice.

But I have also been able to create a great relationship with a tailor in Istanbul. There were of few hits and misses in the beginning but I am now extremely happy. And some of the needlework and finishing of Istanbul tailors will put to shame many of their western colleagues. And this compliment counts even more because it comes from a Greek

[carl browne]

I was at Huntsman for a few years and then moved to Richard Anderson. No objection to Huntsman--they were wonderful-- but they stopped traveling to Beverly Hills, so they really couldn't help me any more. Richard Anderson had cut my first Huntsman suit just before he struck out on his own, so it was a very smooth transition.

I've recently learned that Huntsman has resumed its Beverly Hills visits, but I'm so very happy with Richard Anderson that I have absolutely no desire to go back. I always see Brian Lishak, who is a delight. His knowledge is encyclopedic, his work is excellent, and his enthusiasm is infectious.

I can't imagine that you'd go wrong with either firm, but I am a confirmed Richard Anderson fan.

C

[carl browne]

Huntsman and Richard Anderson both prefer a one button model. One might think that a one button coat would draw too much attention to itself, but that doesn't really seem to be the case. You might try it.

[DrT]

Thanks to all for the kind replies and the advice.

You raise some rather interesting points; one of the reasons why I am having so many difficulties choosing a tailor for my first bespoke is that I truly have multiple options:

a) I spend multiple days per week in Rome (Caraceni, Rubinacci etc etc)
b) I am very often in London (SR tailors)
c) I am based in Southampton (various local tailors)

At the moment, I would be inclined to try SR as I am undeniably drawn to the English bespoke tradition.
However, I am still trying to choose the specific SR tailor.
A further issue to consider is that, at 30, I am constrained by my budget. I wish I could say that price is irrelevant to me; unfortunately, that is not the case. I wear suits every day (Saturdays and Sundays included) and I must strike a balance between quality of my garments and cost.
In light of this, I am excluding Huntsman, as their prices are unsustainable for my finances [Caraceni and Rubinacci would present the same problem, were I to choose the Italian option].
Richard Anderson might be a sustainable option; nevertheless, if I am not mistaken, he still charges 20%-30% more than some other SR houses such as Henry Poole and W&J. What makes him so tempting is his impeccable reputation and house style which caters to my preferences.

Decisions decisions...I guess this is the true beauty of bespoke.

Feel free to continue sharing your advice. I will keep you updated on the progress of my journey.

P.S. later today I might post some pictures of some of my current suits, to provide you gentlemen with an idea of my starting point.

[levantine]

If you were thinking of Rubinacci why don't you try his "cousin" Anderson & Sheppard? I have been very happy with them. Just make sure you like their soft tailoring style.

if you travel to Rome there are a few good tailors. I have used Sartoria Ripense and I am happy with them. I have also heard good things about Gaetano Aloisio and somebody told me good words on Giovanni Celentano.

If you travel to Rome don't bother with SR. In Rome you can get a better product for a fraction of the price.

[DrT]

If you travel to Rome don't bother with SR. In Rome you can get a better product for a fraction of the price.

Levantine, thank you very much for your advice. You put forth an interesting view. I wonder how many gentlemen on this forum agree with this statement. I always thought that Italian tailors were "different", not better or worse. Moreover, I thought that the structured/firm cut typical of Huntsman and RA was not exactly popular among Italian tailors. I also had certain reservations concerning the cloths used by Italian tailors...but admittedly I am no expert.

Hopefully, some of the gentlemen who have had the pleasure to try both SR tailors and the afore-mentioned Italian will share their views.

[levantine]

most southern Italians do not offer a structured style.

As for fabrics my experience is that Italians love english suitings more than anyone else. At least the Italian tailors that i have worked with.

[DrT]

Levantine,

I feared that you would say something like that.
However, as I am in Rome on friday, I will stop by the Sartoria Ripense and see if they can tempt me with a nice offer. Hopefully their pricing will not be as challenging as Huntsman or Richard Anderson.

However, I must say that my desire for English bespoke remains unfettered.

[academe]

The advice that others' have given to visit the Row and see different tailors' work is probably the best given so far... There are probably many other tailors on the Row capable of making a lean/structured garment that would suit your tastes, some of whom may not get quite as much praise or kudos on the various fora. Paying a visit to the Row may be a means of seeing the different house styles and what can be achieved IRL, and give you the opportunity to learn more about the different tailors. If budget is a constraint, one might consider working with slightly less illustrious (but perhaps also quite talented off-Row tailors). Developing experience working with tailors and exploring the possibilities of bespoke is enjoyable in and of itself, and there is value to having the opportunity to "play" and experiment at a lower cost, even if the garment isn't as technically well-executed or as "perfect" as SR bespoke. Just a thought...

[alden]

If budget is a constraint, one might consider working with slightly less illustrious (but perhaps also quite talented off-Row tailors). Developing experience working with tailors and exploring the possibilities of bespoke is enjoyable in and of itself, and there is value to having the opportunity to "play" and experiment at a lower cost, even if the garment isn't as technically well-executed or as "perfect" as SR bespoke. Just a thought...

and a good thought for young men on a budget. Yes, experience working with a tailor to learn about and develop a style without the pressure of a large price tag can be a good way to start out. There is a good deal of information about the various off Row tailors on this site that might help.

Michael Alden

[DrT]

Thank you very much for the advice.

On my list of off row tailors I have
Graham Browne
The Georges
C Antoniu

I will keep on looking.

[Lugano]

[speaking only of tailors I have been exposed to, so to speak] if off-Row means aspiring to/achieving Row tailoring standards, but not on Savile Row, then George of Cleveland Street and probably C Antoniou would not be on the list. Both excellent value tailors, I am very pleased with what they have made for me, but could not pass as Row.

probably closer to Savile Row level:
Paul Kitsaros of Cleveland Street http://www.paul-kitsaros.co.uk/
Connock & Lockie no website
Brian Staples on Kingly Street is probably worth a spin as well, I have visited his workroom, but he wasn't around at the time.

[DrT]

Lugano,

thank you very much for the suggestions: I had never heard of the tailors you mentione. I will make sure to research them.