The Myth of the Soft Shoulder

[cdo]

I, too, have similar sloping shoulders and medtech_expat's silhouette is reminiscent of mine when I wear my softly padded coats. I agree with Mr. Alden regarding the collar height as my A&S coats with their higher collars accentuate my shoulder slope even further. Another point that I seem to notice is that the higher the step lapel gorge position, the more the sloping shoulder is emphasised, presumably due to the lines drawn by the step. That said, I think medtech_expat's coat is very nice and suits him. For me, I seem to have gone full circle from structured to soft and back again with a slightly concave shoulder-line. I appreciate that bespoke tailoring is costly but I would encourage the gentlemen here to experiment and try something different from their norm occasionally. Why limit yourself to one style when bespoke tailoring offers so much?

- C

[Slewfoot]

I appreciate that bespoke tailoring is costly but I would encourage the gentlemen here to experiment and try something different from their norm occasionally. Why limit yourself to one style when bespoke tailoring offers so much?

- C

I fully agree with this statement. For me, the final determining factor is the fabric at hand.

Since medtech-expat seemed to receive some nice feedback after posting photos, I thought I may be so bold to do so as well. I'm curious to hear thoughts from members on which shoulders and jackets they prefer and why. I welcome your responses. Keep in mind that the first two photos are more recent and a slightly fuller cut (the blue jacket is pulling due to the sweater vest) and in the others don't mind my slightly awkward lean!











Thank you in advance.

[medtech_expat]

Gentlemen - many thanks for the thoughtful feedback. I must admit that my knowledge of the art of tailoring and the interplay of its various components is very rudimentary. Your comments will certainly contribute to my ability to have more fruitful discussions for future commissions.

I would add a bit of padding, as your shoulders could perhaps benefit from less of a sloping line.

My shoulders are fairly built, and as a result I hadn't even thought to add padding. I suppose this is one of the "myths" of the soft shoulder? I will discuss with my fitter this weekend.

I would bring the jacket collar up in the center back slightly. It looks like you are showing at least an inch of shirt collar and the jacket collar line is not quite matching the curvature of the shirt collar--it's a little flat in the center.

May I request that you expand on this thought a bit? After you pointed out the excessive collar showing I can certainly see that in the pics. Where I'm not so sure I understand well is the jacket collar line matching the curvature of the shirt collar. Thank you.

Regarding the coat length, let the tailor have his way on the next one. It could be a ditta shorter (about 1 cm, and no more.)

I would suggest narrowing the lapels on the coat a bit. It will give the suit more style longevity.

Is this a 2b front coat?

I agree with Couch that the collar of the coat seems to be riding low or the shirt’s collar is high. One of the tricks of bespoke is getting our various makers to work in tandem to make clothes that work best together. In this regards you are the general contractor that has to oversee the plans and build. I suspect, in this case that the shirt collar is on the high side. The tailor has given you a standard collar stand. If he had made a higher one, it would call more attention to the slope of your shoulders. As it is, the slope of your shoulders is borderline, but fine.

Michael, I have thought to experiment with a slightly shorter coat. I have a forward this weekend on a solid navy suit in Tonik so perhaps this would be an opportunity to do so. This coat is actually a 3R2, although the Tonik will be a true 2B (with peak lapels). As for the lapel width, I had already requested a more moderated width and will see how a sportcoat in Dormeuil Scottie Derbie turns out. Very interesting to read such consistent feedback regarding the shoulder line. Thank you, as this has never been pointed out to me before, and I'd like to get one step closer to perfection with each subsequent commission.

For me, I seem to have gone full circle from structured to soft and back again with a slightly concave shoulder-line. I appreciate that bespoke tailoring is costly but I would encourage the gentlemen here to experiment and try something different from their norm occasionally.

I am actually contemplating Richard Anderson for a more structured, English sensibility to counterbalance my soft tailoring. However, I feel as though I need to learn a fair bit more before selecting a house on SR.

[dopey]

. . . I'd like to get one step closer to perfection with each subsequent commission. . . .

[Costi]

Very nice, Slewfoot! Being in good shape certainly helps a lot, too! The clothes look well made and you wear them well.

[alden]

Slewfoot,

You have found a way to make some nice clothes that fit you. Now you just need to concentrate on finding interesting fabrics and dressing. This is, technically speaking, the fun part of the adventure.

Cheers

Michael

[Slewfoot]

Michael and Costi - thank you for the kind words. As you know, I'm working on getting more and better fabrics! :^) In terms of the shoulders on my jackets, they are the following. Do you find all of them work equally well for me depending on my mood of what to wear that day or are some clearly superior in your opinion? I have my own preferences, but curious to hear what others think looking at the photos with a fresh and objective mindset.

1) brown herringbone from W. Bill- very soft padding with no roping
2) navy herringbone from Harrison's Moonbeam - structured with padding with no roping
3) rust Breanish shetland - soft padding with shirtsleeve/natural shoulder
4) navy H&S fresco - soft padding with no roping
5) gray Smith's woolen flannel - soft padding with a slight bit of roping

[Costi]

I think your shoulders don't NEED padding. If you feel psychologically comfortable with a more structured / padded shoulder, as on the dark DB, you can certainly go for it, it doesn't make you look awkward. But the soft shoulder doesn't put you at any disadvantage, your physique takes it very well. The former look demands respect and keeps the crowd at bay. The latter invites to share a thought. The former makes me want to be polite to you, the other tells me I can just be friendly. It depends on how you see yourself, the world and what you want from others - and it's all in a shoulder...

[cdo]

Whether one silhouette is better than another can be debated ad infinitum without anyone being any wiser. Only by trial and error (unfortunately) does one discover his own style. By all means, order the soft, draped coats from A&S or Rubinacci but don't dismiss the lean, structured style of Huntsman and Richard Anderson or the more flamboyant, expressive Edward Sexton suit. I don't want one silhouette facsimiled onto all of my coats - how about trying a roped, pagoda shoulder cheviot tweed sportscoat or a soft, drapey business suit cut in a stuffy navy cable stripe cloth or perhaps a structured cream linen d/b summer blazer with 6" full bellied revers? Each style will always be enduring if it complements your personality.

- C

[Costi]

I agree about the trial and error process of finding one's style, but that implies there are errors, too. Not anything goes. I believe a very important part of finding one's style is developing the discernment needed to recognize errors. And also to achieve unity in diversity throughout one's wardrobe.
Describing Odette Swan's way of dressing, Proust captures this unity as "a kind of dress individuality, particular to this woman, that gave her most diverse ensembles the same air of a family". He also captures the essence of diversity as an organic need of an elegant being as he describes M.me de Guermantes's style: "Each of her dresses appeared to me as a necessary, natural ambience, as the projection of a different aspect of her soul."
So coherence and style consistency, yes, but rather as members of the same family resemble each other, than a rigid identity of style. Diversity, yes, but rather as an expression of a complex personality, than a display of a wide range for its own sake. Personal style may be found in a continuum defined by these two coordinates and it is a matter a matter of vision, not of technique.

[alden]

In terms of the shoulders on my jackets, they are the following. Do you find all of them work equally well for me depending on my mood of what to wear that day or are some clearly superior in your opinion?

Slewfoot

It is hard to get too much detail from these pictures. But as regards the shoulders I almost want to give you a bit more width. Some of the pictures seem a bit "neat" in the shoulder to me. But my preference is for a relatively wide shoulder. Most guys shy from width for fear of looking too wide overall when in reality it allows a more easy shape at the waist.

Cheers

Michael

[alden]

However, I feel as though I need to learn a fair bit more before selecting a house on SR.

Medtechexpat

The pictures of what you have done so far are very good. However, what impresses me more is your attitude and approach that is exemplary.

Take your time, go slow and extract all the learning you can from each commission. Your style will start to take form and one day you will be surprised to see it.

Cheers

Michael

[old henry]

Michael, I agree with what you say about his shoulders , although I did not notice it until you mentioned it. He could use a bit more Point-to-Point. But the suits look great.

[Slewfoot]

Gentlemen - I greatly appreciate all of your thoughts. It seems as though we are in complete agreement all around. The navy blue herringbone sportcoat has the widest shoulders of any and is how I would prefer my future sportcoats to be. I don't have a small head so I think it balances me out nicely while allowing a bit more comfort/flexibility along with allowing a bit more snap to the look of the waist. I do like the fact that I have coats made in several different styles already. Variety is the spice of life as they say.

Most of my future items will have very minimal padding and a soft structure all around as I have really been enjoying the "feel" of this style. I currently have orders in with both Edwin DeBoise of Steed (fabric being the LL brown Shetland with crimson windowpane) and Mina Adamo of Napoli Su Misura (fabric being a lightweight Loro Piana linen/wool/silk blend in a tan glen plaid with some blue). I imagine they will both be precisely what I am after. I'll keep you posted on the results.

Thank you again for your comments.