Dry Cleaning effects on fully canvassed jackets

[Merc]

Although we've all been told not to overdo the amount of dry cleaning, particularly on jackets (i don't really worry about pants-clean as need be)
and although i think the greater danger comes from an incompetent with a hot iron
my question is this:

Does dry cleaning have a negative effect on the horse hair that comprises most canvasses?
Does it reduce the 'springiness' of horse hair cloths, does it embrittle the fibers, etc?

I'm hoping for real knowledge on this as opposed to vague conjecture, since i already have plenty of conjecture of my own.

[old henry]

Dear Friend,
If the hymo and horsehair and flannel and whatever other materials that might go into a handmade canvas are all soaked in water for a good while - as they should be ..... and the canvas is shaped and pad stitched appropriately .....and the goods have been rolled and shrunk well in a wet shrink cloth ... and the lining has been preshrunk and sewn in with the right amount of ease and fullness... and the coat front has been basted correctly to the canvas... then you will be safe in dry cleaning if it is necessary. Sometimes you just have to. I one time spilled a lovely, glorious pint of Guinness Extra Stout on my charcoal JJ Minnis 18oz flannel 3 piece suit. I cried for an hour. I felt bad about the suit too. Frank

[Merc]

Dear Friend,
If the hymo and horsehair and flannel and whatever other materials that might go into a handmade canvas are all soaked in water for a good while - as they should be ..... and the canvas is shaped and pad stitched appropriately .....and the goods have been rolled and shrunk well in a wet shrink cloth ... and the lining has been preshrunk and sewn in with the right amount of ease and fullness... and the coat front has been basted correctly to the canvas... then you will be safe in dry cleaning if it is necessary. Sometimes you just have to. I one time spilled a lovely, glorious pint of Guinness Extra Stout on my charcoal JJ Minnis 18oz flannel 3 piece suit. I cried for an hour. I felt bad about the suit too. Frank

Frank, that's a great answer!!!

seriously, thanks for the response. i have two suits that i know have a handmade canvas (i'm not really sure about what my prior tailor did) and yes its different varieties of horsehair cloth, with the most horsey in the chest piece as i take it is most common. i believe the full length portion is horsehair and wool. And yes it appears to be basted in correctly and no i ahvent had problems with the linign after cleaning.

BUT i'm not clear about the soaking. So is a good tailor supposed to soak the canvas components himself? and then dry them? is this to adjust for shrinkage when cleaning?

[old henry]

Yes ,, I shrink everything.. Even pre-shrunk cloth. If the mills do shrink they do not do enough. Everything - in my opinion - should be shrunk and shrunk good. The old men I started with in Syracuse even shrunk the thread. Hymo is made of goat hair and wool. Very hard to find the good goods today , however. Frank

[Merc]

Yes ,, I shrink everything.. Even pre-shrunk cloth. If the mills do shrink they do not do enough. Everything - in my opinion - should be shrunk and shrunk good. The old men I started with in Syracuse even shrunk the thread. Hymo is made of goat hair and wool. Very hard to find the good goods today , however. Frank

That's why you have the reputation you have. Of course it also drives up the cost of the finished product.

[old henry]

Yes Sir , It does .

[sartorius]

Merc,

This goes to the important question about ongoing maintenance of one's bespoke wardrobe. Suits have to be dry cleaned - in fact, if one wears them regularly, I find that dry cleaning is necessary once a year. It is also necessary to prevent moth damage (as recently commented on here: http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/201 ... ience.html.)

Rather than risk expensive bespoke clothing at high street dry cleaners (they will almost certainly ruin them) I always take mine back to the maker. They have them dry cleaned for me, and then press them themselves. Aside from the fact they know what they're doing, one then also has the insurance that if a garment is damaged in the process of cleaning, the maker will be responsible.

Sartorius

[Merc]

Merc,

This goes to the important question about ongoing maintenance of one's bespoke wardrobe. Suits have to be dry cleaned - in fact, if one wears them regularly, I find that dry cleaning is necessary once a year. It is also necessary to prevent moth damage (as recently commented on here: http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/201 ... ience.html.)

Rather than risk expensive bespoke clothing at high street dry cleaners (they will almost certainly ruin them) I always take mine back to the maker. They have them dry cleaned for me, and then press them themselves. Aside from the fact they know what they're doing, one then also has the insurance that if a garment is damaged in the process of cleaning, the maker will be responsible.

Sartorius

my tailor tells me if i need my jackets re-pressed particularly around the lapels ,bring it back to him.
im not shy about dry cleaning. i wear my clothes and i dry clean my trousers fairly often, but i also try to have doubles of each pair of pants.
its true i dont trust your average dry cleaner with a well made jacket and i clean my jackets only when they get dirty, which seems to be maybe twice a year on average. i was curious whether the solutions they use caused the horsehair to embrittle.

[MTM]

^Interesting. Have you not had any issues with the pants fading relative to the jackets?

[Merc]

^Interesting. Have you not had any issues with the pants fading relative to the jackets?

well truth be told, it seems as if my lighter colored trousers have made it in most often and no, i havent noticed a spread

i suspect if, with a navy blue suit, i dry cleaned pants vs jacket at a 3 or 4:1 ratio, id notice differential fading

[iyorito]

In Japan, water based cleaning of garments is becoming very common.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzkbBgUtdM

There are two major players in this business in Japan, one is NATURAL CLEAN, and the other
being HAPPY.

There is a desk at Isetan, Shinjuku for Natural Clean.

The Valet at Alfred Dunhill in Ginza is the reception for HAPPY in Tokyo (their workshop is in Kyoto)

It is not cheap at $100 and up, but the process absolutely do not destroy any parts of the garments, and I
swear by it.

Most of the upscale tailors do this service nowadays in Japan.

For those outside of Japan, it will be prohibitively expensive considering the postage, but well
worth it for your favourite garments made by most skilled artisans.

Anybody interested, drop me a note at masaichi@gazianogirling.com. I may be able to help you out.

[Cairpre]

There are types of fabric not suited for dry cleaning. You can consider wet cleaning if it is necessary of the type of the fabric your jacket has. You can also read the label of your jacket if dry cleaning is necessary.

By: washer and dryer

[stubloom]

As with most services, there are a range of skills available when it comes to caring for your bespoke and made-to-measure garments.

There are 26,000 dry cleaners in the USA, the overwhelming majority of which can best be described as ordinary, bang and hang cleaners. Your fine garments are in by 8 and out by 5; picked up on day 1 and delivered on day 3. The focus is on moving as many garments as possible as fast as possible through their "production system" at the lowest possible cost per garment. In other words, a garment is a garment is a garment. It wouldn't make a difference whether that garment was an Attolini or an Abercrombie. The daily battle cry is "Get it out!".

Poor cleaning and/or poor pressing can, of course, ruin a garment. Most owners of bespoke and made-to-measure garments instinctively know this. They understand the nuances of the construction of their garments, the effort that went into shaping their garments, the way in which the lapel is supposed to roll and the collar is supposed to "sit", etc. And when they couple this knowledge with the way dry cleaners typically operate, their apprehension is understandable.

The key, of course, is not to dismiss proper cleaning just because the vast majority of dry cleaners are ordinary. The key is to find a cleaner who specializes in this type of work. In much the same way as you would consult a specialist if your doctor was unable to diagnose a particular ailment.

Here's a guide to help you understand the issues associated with selecting the "right" cleaner....

Ask Andy About Clothes Tutorial: Stu Bloom on Caring for Bespoke Garments
http://askandyaboutclothes.com/Tutorial ... spoke.html

I'll be happy to respond to any questions you might have.

Stu.