Thank you all for your comments. Let me address a few of them:
Whnay, you are partially correct about the reason the collar is not resting on my neck correctly. The suit and jacket weren't just out of the box--I have worn them a few times--but I did not follow the "Mariano" process of tugging on the jacket. For those those of you who haven't had that experience, when Mariano fits you with a suit he grabs at the lower quarters and pulls, appearing to put his entire weight into the pulling. You think he's going to tear the suit into pieces! He then lifts the suit off of you and lets it gently rest on your shoulders. Another reason the collar is not resting on the neck is my posture. Posing for pictures is still unnatural to me! I'm just not relaxed. And while I adore the photographer (my wife), she's not a professional (though I think she did a pretty good job and have to give her a lot of credit for her patience--I know she thought I was a little crazy, or at the very least giving in to an eccentricity, to want to have so many pictures taken of suits and a jacket).
DFR, I specified the one back pocket with Rubinacci. WIth Caraceni I didn't specify, I just let them do their house style. The Rubinacci suit jacket does have pocket flaps; the sports jacket has patch pockets. I will try to post pictures of the lining of the suit and jacket later today.
SMCK, I find the Rubinacci suit more comfortable. The "tightness" of the suit is not entirely an illusion--I have gained almost 10 pounds since my last fitting. I had to stop exercising for a few months because of health reasons, which are now resolved. So I'm on my way back down to what I consider my "normal" weight. Nonetheless, the suit feels more like a shirt than a jacket. The Caraceni suit seems to be wearing me rather than me wearing it (to steal a phrase from many posters here).
My trip to Naples only lasted three days and two nights, and it was wonderful. It was an excusrsion from a longer stay in Rome. When I told Chiara Rubinacci that I was thinking of traveling to Naples, she said that her father would arrange everything. And he did. He arranged the hotel reservations. He sent his driver to take my wife and me from Rome to Naples. He gave us the use of his car and driver over the next couple of days, and the driver took us back from Naples to Rome. On the first evening, we went to a restaurant recommended by Mariano. When I attempted to pay at the end of the meal, the owner came over, asked me whether I enjoyed the meal (it was terrific seafood), said that the tab had been taken care of by Mr. Rubinacci, and asked if I would I please tell Mr. Rubinacci that I had a great meal. On the next night, Mariano and his wife took us to dinner. The conversation and food were fabulous. Prior to this trip I had been hesitant to go to Naples, even after seeing the wonderful pictures posted by Whnay during his trip. I had heard so many stories about the insane traffic, the garbage problem, and the crime rate. Having the Rubinaccis as hosts eliminated those concerns and made for a very memorable, albeit short, vacation. I look forward to going back, but I hope not to impose too much on the Rubinaccis next time!
Photos of recently commissioned Rubinacci suit
Sounds like a wonderful trip. I, too, have been showered with Mariano's generosity on my visits to Naples and London. There is no better host or ambassador for the city of Naples or bespoke tailoring in general. I would say, there is a certain enchanting aspect when dealing with London House that no tailoring establishment can match - the personalized attention from the namesake is something that continues to bring me back even at the nosebleed prices. I'm glad you had a good time, now that the time between ordering, fitting and procurement of the garments has past, whats next on the order list for you?BP45 wrote: My trip to Naples only lasted three days and two nights, and it was wonderful. It was an excusrsion from a longer stay in Rome. When I told Chiara Rubinacci that I was thinking of traveling to Naples, she said that her father would arrange everything. And he did. He arranged the hotel reservations. He sent his driver to take my wife and me from Rome to Naples. He gave us the use of his car and driver over the next couple of days, and the driver took us back from Naples to Rome. On the first evening, we went to a restaurant recommended by Mariano. When I attempted to pay at the end of the meal, the owner came over, asked me whether I enjoyed the meal (it was terrific seafood), said that the tab had been taken care of by Mr. Rubinacci, and asked if I would I please tell Mr. Rubinacci that I had a great meal. On the next night, Mariano and his wife took us to dinner. The conversation and food were fabulous. Prior to this trip I had been hesitant to go to Naples, even after seeing the wonderful pictures posted by Whnay during his trip. I had heard so many stories about the insane traffic, the garbage problem, and the crime rate. Having the Rubinaccis as hosts eliminated those concerns and made for a very memorable, albeit short, vacation. I look forward to going back, but I hope not to impose too much on the Rubinaccis next time!
I am glad to learn you made it to Naples. Sounds like a great sartorial and gastronomic get away!
As regards the pictures, I would suggest wearing the clothes hard for a few weeks and then try taking them again focusing on the side and back views.
These spontaneous photos can sometimes be confusing and inaccurate as stance and slight movements can throw things off dramatically. And clothes are not worn or judged in a “freeze frame” world but in a living, continuous and flowing one.
But from the photos displayed I like the fit of the Caraceni coat and the style of the R coat. On the other hand I prefer the fit of the R trouser and the style of the Caraceni.
As regards, the neck issue in the blazer photo, I suspect you assumed an unusual stance. The short back balance is however a hallmark of Neapolitan coats so you’ll have to decide if you like it and want it. Take a look at these two photos:
Now I used a picture of one of my own suits because it was handy and there are many other examples for you to see on the net and elsewhere on the LL. But a good side view should look something like this.
The collar is tight against the neck, the cloth falls following the curve of the back without being glued to the back, the bottom of the coat is horizontal to the legs forming a 90 degree angle and the vents fall in pretty much a straight line and remain closed.
Let’s start from the bottom. The behavior of the vents on this coat gives me some concern. The cloth in the back is adhesive and hugs the back as if to suggest it is too small, too narrow. And finally, the collar has moved slightly away from the neck.
Give this coat some wear and try another photo in a relaxed situation and let’s see how it looks.
Oh, the vigorous pulling down on the front quarters of a coat is a nice piece of showmanship. It is true that with wear a coat does “come down” as it molds to the wearer’s body. But if the balance (the cut) is off, not all the pulling, tugging or wear can make an ill fitting coat fit.
Cheers
Michael
As regards the pictures, I would suggest wearing the clothes hard for a few weeks and then try taking them again focusing on the side and back views.
These spontaneous photos can sometimes be confusing and inaccurate as stance and slight movements can throw things off dramatically. And clothes are not worn or judged in a “freeze frame” world but in a living, continuous and flowing one.
But from the photos displayed I like the fit of the Caraceni coat and the style of the R coat. On the other hand I prefer the fit of the R trouser and the style of the Caraceni.
As regards, the neck issue in the blazer photo, I suspect you assumed an unusual stance. The short back balance is however a hallmark of Neapolitan coats so you’ll have to decide if you like it and want it. Take a look at these two photos:
Now I used a picture of one of my own suits because it was handy and there are many other examples for you to see on the net and elsewhere on the LL. But a good side view should look something like this.
The collar is tight against the neck, the cloth falls following the curve of the back without being glued to the back, the bottom of the coat is horizontal to the legs forming a 90 degree angle and the vents fall in pretty much a straight line and remain closed.
Let’s start from the bottom. The behavior of the vents on this coat gives me some concern. The cloth in the back is adhesive and hugs the back as if to suggest it is too small, too narrow. And finally, the collar has moved slightly away from the neck.
Give this coat some wear and try another photo in a relaxed situation and let’s see how it looks.
Oh, the vigorous pulling down on the front quarters of a coat is a nice piece of showmanship. It is true that with wear a coat does “come down” as it molds to the wearer’s body. But if the balance (the cut) is off, not all the pulling, tugging or wear can make an ill fitting coat fit.
Cheers
Michael
Michael, thank you very much for your thoughtful analysis. When I return from my current business trip (I'm in the air as I write this) I will take photos of an older, and much more worn, Rubinacci suit and see how that one compares to the newer garments. I should point out with respect to the sports jacket that it doesn't help that I'm wearing fairly thick denim jeans which enlarge my derriere (and I had a wallet in the hip pocket to boot). Nonetheless, I can see how the tightness of the fabric and resulting curve of the back can cause the vents to flare away from the body. Michael, what do you think of the relative suit jacket lengths?
As for my next step, Chiara Rubinacci is coming to Los Angeles in late September, and I plan to take my recent purchases to her and point out any remaining issues. I don't plan any trips to Naples or London in the next several months, but I go to NY on a regular basis, so I can follow-up with Luca Rubinacci on one of his monthly trips to New York. I'm not sure what will be next on my order list. Perhaps a blue flannel chalkstripe?
As for my next step, Chiara Rubinacci is coming to Los Angeles in late September, and I plan to take my recent purchases to her and point out any remaining issues. I don't plan any trips to Naples or London in the next several months, but I go to NY on a regular basis, so I can follow-up with Luca Rubinacci on one of his monthly trips to New York. I'm not sure what will be next on my order list. Perhaps a blue flannel chalkstripe?
...
Last edited by m-lan on Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
As to Caraceni, did you use the Milan or Rome atelier?
The Caraceni jacket had a cleaner chest and appeared more structured, but I liked how the Rubinacci 3 piece combo looks on you. It is very rare to see a vest out of Rubinacci...or anyone out of Naples
Could you post the Rubinacci suit jacket alone...without the vest?
As to trousers, I like how the Rubinacci looks...its all about the placement of the 2nd big pleat. Its more subtle in the Rubinacci and more pronounced in the Caraceni.
As to a future commission using a blue flannel chalkstripe...let's see if some of us can convince Alden to move forward on a LL Cloth Club in an Air Force Blue flannel with a sky blue chalkstripe, in a 14-17oz weight.
The Caraceni jacket had a cleaner chest and appeared more structured, but I liked how the Rubinacci 3 piece combo looks on you. It is very rare to see a vest out of Rubinacci...or anyone out of Naples
Could you post the Rubinacci suit jacket alone...without the vest?
As to trousers, I like how the Rubinacci looks...its all about the placement of the 2nd big pleat. Its more subtle in the Rubinacci and more pronounced in the Caraceni.
As to a future commission using a blue flannel chalkstripe...let's see if some of us can convince Alden to move forward on a LL Cloth Club in an Air Force Blue flannel with a sky blue chalkstripe, in a 14-17oz weight.
BP, I am pretty convinced that you have merely assumed a more upright stance in the blazer photo. Throwing your head and shoulders back can play havoc in a snap shot.Michael, thank you very much for your thoughtful analysis. When I return from my current business trip (I'm in the air as I write this) I will take photos of an older, and much more worn, Rubinacci suit and see how that one compares to the newer garments. I should point out with respect to the sports jacket that it doesn't help that I'm wearing fairly thick denim jeans which enlarge my derriere (and I had a wallet in the hip pocket to boot). Nonetheless, I can see how the tightness of the fabric and resulting curve of the back can cause the vents to flare away from the body.
I prefer the shorter length of the R coats.Michael, what do you think of the relative suit jacket lengths?
As an aside, the Caraceni suit reminds me, in these pictures, of the default style of many Sicilian tailors, especially those who were trained by Roman tailors. So a quick trip across the straits of Messina might be a good idea for the more adventurous among you..
Cheers
Michael
BP45,
Both suits have very well cut belted trousers, but I particularly like the fit and style of the Caraceni. Congrats and thank you for sharing the photos.
Both suits have very well cut belted trousers, but I particularly like the fit and style of the Caraceni. Congrats and thank you for sharing the photos.
I used the Rome atleier. They were very accommodating to my schedule--able to schedule measurement and two subsequent fittings in a 10-day time frame. While I was there I saw a bolt of fabric--a blue flannel windowpane--which Tony said he thought was the same fabric they used to make the Agnelli blue windowpane suit pictured, I believe, on the cover of Life magazine. I was thinking of ordering a suit in that fabric, if the suit they were then making for me (and which I thereafter received, pictures of which I've posted) was satisfactory. I'm not sure I'm happy enough with the suit I received to order another one, at least not without another trip to Rome. The problem with Caraceni is they do not travel to the United States!ay329 wrote:As to Caraceni, did you use the Milan or Rome atelier?
The Caraceni jacket had a cleaner chest and appeared more structured, but I liked how the Rubinacci 3 piece combo looks on you. It is very rare to see a vest out of Rubinacci...or anyone out of Naples
Could you post the Rubinacci suit jacket alone...without the vest?
As to trousers, I like how the Rubinacci looks...its all about the placement of the 2nd big pleat. Its more subtle in the Rubinacci and more pronounced in the Caraceni.
As to a future commission using a blue flannel chalkstripe...let's see if some of us can convince Alden to move forward on a LL Cloth Club in an Air Force Blue flannel with a sky blue chalkstripe, in a 14-17oz weight.
This weekend I will post a picture of the Rubinacci suit without the vest, as well as another, more broken-in, Rubinacci suit.
Thanks for your comments.
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tteplitzmd
An interesting discussion. Comparing the two suits would seem to me to be comparing "apples and oranges." However, each House's entries could certainly be entered in the elite class running of the "bespoke arms race."
A couple of random thoughts: I have never understood a silk lining for a summer weight suiting. Elsewhere the issue of silk not breathing has been addressed. Further, I would not put in a whimsical lining in a summer weight 3 piece suit. I would not have so readily accepted the wisdom of a salesclerk in choosing the lining to begin with, but that's part of the problem with the horizontally integrated commission process. The vest is not terribly useful for a suit of this weight, anyway.
Michael wrote: "Oh, the vigorous pulling down on the front quarters of a coat is a nice piece of showmanship." They do this routinely with RTW. It always struck me as the tailoring equivalent to the shoe salesman saying: "Break them in a bit," when the painful shoe is first tried on.
It would be nice to see how Dopey's Caraceni DB Solero cloth suit came out for comparison. My bias would be to do as the Romans do...
A couple of random thoughts: I have never understood a silk lining for a summer weight suiting. Elsewhere the issue of silk not breathing has been addressed. Further, I would not put in a whimsical lining in a summer weight 3 piece suit. I would not have so readily accepted the wisdom of a salesclerk in choosing the lining to begin with, but that's part of the problem with the horizontally integrated commission process. The vest is not terribly useful for a suit of this weight, anyway.
Michael wrote: "Oh, the vigorous pulling down on the front quarters of a coat is a nice piece of showmanship." They do this routinely with RTW. It always struck me as the tailoring equivalent to the shoe salesman saying: "Break them in a bit," when the painful shoe is first tried on.
It would be nice to see how Dopey's Caraceni DB Solero cloth suit came out for comparison. My bias would be to do as the Romans do...
You're correct, it is like comparing apples to oranges. I had a few "apple" (or "orange"?) suits--i.e., Rubinacci--and wanted to see how the other fruit compared. In that regard, I have been measured and had one fitting for a Richard Anderson suit, and will have the second fitting when they visit Los Angeles in the fall. Part of the experimentation process.tteplitzmd wrote:An interesting discussion. Comparing the two suits would seem to me to be comparing "apples and oranges." However, each House's entries could certainly be entered in the elite class running of the "bespoke arms race."
A couple of random thoughts: I have never understood a silk lining for a summer weight suiting. Elsewhere the issue of silk not breathing has been addressed. Further, I would not put in a whimsical lining in a summer weight 3 piece suit. I would not have so readily accepted the wisdom of a salesclerk in choosing the lining to begin with, but that's part of the problem with the horizontally integrated commission process. The vest is not terribly useful for a suit of this weight, anyway.
Michael wrote: "Oh, the vigorous pulling down on the front quarters of a coat is a nice piece of showmanship." They do this routinely with RTW. It always struck me as the tailoring equivalent to the shoe salesman saying: "Break them in a bit," when the painful shoe is first tried on.
It would be nice to see how Dopey's Caraceni DB Solero cloth suit came out for comparison. My bias would be to do as the Romans do...
The vest probably is of limited use. I envisioned wearing it in weather in the range of 50 degrees Farenheit--for those summer trips to San Francisco (Twain: "the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco").
I liked the "whimsicality" of the lining. In person, it is not that outlandish. The colors are actually rather muted. And, of course, it is something most will never see, except for the occasional "flash" when the jacket is open. I said earlier I would post some pictures of the lining of the suit. Here are a few:
The sleeve attached to the body (regretably, somewhat out of focus):
The sports jacket has a more outlandish, burnt-orange lining (though, again, not as outlandish as the pictures below). It is quarter-lined:
As for putting a lining in a summer suit, my alterations tailor (who is, I have been told and believe, the best in Los Angeles, and makes bespoke suits for George Hamilton and Dick Van Dyke) always wants to add full linings to the partially lined jackets I take to him for alteration. His view is that unlined jackets are not significantly cooler, and that a lining is essential to maintain the flow and line of the suit. I would love to hear thoughts on that issue.
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tteplitzmd
I too, like partial linings, despite the tailors' objections. I like the partial lining in the sports jacket. It's nice to see the finishing of the jacket exposed. What is the fabric in the navy jacket?
BP, your SF alterations tailor is certainly right that with a densely woven cloth that doesn't let much air pass through anyway it doesn't make any difference, so you'd better have your clothes fully lined, unless you appreciate the aesthetics of the exposed seams. But with a breathable summer cloth (linen, fresco, some mohair blends) a lining defeats the purpose of the cloth, it's like making cordovan sandals. If the cloth is not too lightweight, it will hang just as well without a lining and then the shoulders, sleeves and vents are always lined anyway.
I like both Rubinacci jackets, and I like the Caraceni trousers.
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tteplitzmd
Following up on the issue of unlined jacketings, I attach crude photos of an unlined summer suit jacket. The tailor piped the edges of the exposed inside seams. I am surprised the Neapolitans didn't do this nice finishing touch. The cloth is a 7-8 ounce Holland and Sherry worsted known also known as "sunshot."
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