Dinner suit CMT...does it cost double of a regular suit?

[pchong]

I am in the process of starting a new project - a dinner suit (need more support on the LL Brisa black for DJ...see thread elsewhere) SB dinner jacket with grosgrain facings on the peak lapel, bow tie from same grosgrain, trousers with grosgrain stripe. My tailor is proposing double of what he usually charges for a 4 piece suit (coat, vest, two pairs of trousers). He claims that the grosgrain is very difficult to work with, and justifies charging double for CMT.

What do you gentlemen think? Justified? or not?

p.s. BTW, this is my regular man, who has done perhaps 8 wonderful suits for me. I find this a bit strange...further, he refuses to make the waistcoats for me, as he says he doesn't know or have the pattern for an open back vest. I sent him pages I got from Sator, and he still insists he doesn't have enough info...and wants me to bring along a sample to copy.

[S. Gillette]

I am by no means an expert but: this doesn't sound very reliable.

[Simon A]

Hi Mr Chong, maybe he just doesn't want to do it...the idea of the unlined dinner suit in Brisa with backless vest is a good idea by the way.

I wanted to ask your advice, some LL Cloth Club fabrics are likely to head my way over the next few months, but my tailor in Tsim Sha Tsui is refusing to accept customers' own fabric, claiming it is "against company policy". This seems odd, as I am sure they have done so before. They have recently renovated their second floor premises (so you can guess whom I am referring to) ; this may influence their approach, or maybe I need better connections....any recommendations amongst the other fine tailors in Hong Kong who would be more flexible/less mafan in this regard?

Best wishes, Simon

[alden]

Peter

A 30% increase over a standard 2pc suit price is pretty much standard for a dinner suit.

Simon,

Yes, you may have hit the the nail on the proverbial head, the tailor may just not want the job. It happens.

The London Lounge has a flourishing Hong Kong chapter, and this message is to those members....please contact Simon and give him a hand.

Cheers

Michael

[DFR]

Hi Mr Chong, maybe he just doesn't want to do it...the idea of the unlined dinner suit in Brisa with backless vest is a good idea by the way.

I wanted to ask your advice, some LL Cloth Club fabrics are likely to head my way over the next few months, but my tailor in Tsim Sha Tsui is refusing to accept customers' own fabric, claiming it is "against company policy". This seems odd, as I am sure they have done so before. They have recently renovated their second floor premises (so you can guess whom I am referring to) ; this may influence their approach, or maybe I need better connections....any recommendations amongst the other fine tailors in Hong Kong who would be more flexible/less mafan in this regard?

Best wishes, Simon

Try Gordon Yao at Royal Garden Hotel - he is easily the equal and probbaly better (in my experience) than the firm to which you refer.

[kolecho]

Simon A,

Most of the better known HK tailors are well written all over the internet, so there is no need to elaborate further. Some do not like doing CMT for a variety of reasons. 1) It eats into their margins on cloth markup, 2) The cloth may be irreplaceable should they make a mistake, 3) They don't know you, and what you are like to deal with when it comes to your own cloth.

The no CMT rule is not cast in stone in many of these firms. I suggest you invest some time to get to personally meet all of these tailors to have a chat, pick the one you think will most likely service your needs, and order something from the books they carry. If you end up being a happy repeat customer, ask them nicely what they think of CMT again.

Hope that helps.

[pchong]

Thanks for the responses. I guess, there is no need to veil the tailors' names under cover. We are here to learn from each other.

Simon, I also moved from WW Chan because they insist on using their fabrics and refuse CMT.

I have now been working with Gordon Yao for a few years, and more than a few suits. He has proven reliable, and have nailed down the fit, which IMHO truly superb...smooth clean lines, nipped in the waist, with natural padless shoulders. I also really like the amount of handwork he does on my suits. As usual, there is always a bit of tension between customer and tailor...especially when the customer is knowledgable, and demands things done his way. I can accept that...even the Duke of Windsor had his quarrels with Scholte.

But Gordon seems to be getting a bit difficult lately...using up more material...the first suit he cut for me was a DB, two pairs of trousers...4m of Smith Finemersco was sufficient. Second to seventh suits were all done either SB or DB with vest, two pairs of trousers, 5m of cloth...some were plain, some were stripes, and one was even checkers.

Recently, while working on my grey Brisa POW commission, he didn't have enough to cut a DB vest with 5m of material...strange methinks...he had done up a similar suit with 5m before. But he insists he is cutting frugally, and there just isn't sufficient material. So we modified the DB vest to SB. And now with this premium for the dinner suit. I too am inclined to think he is trying to refuse my commission for the dinner suit.

[Costi]

Pchong, the following is just a hunch based on the fact that both our tailors are based in areas of the world where bespoke tailoring naturally costs less than in London or New York (note I didn't use the word "cheap", because it implies lesser quality). These tailors are happy to make "normal" suits at that price level, but most of them do know what their colleagues in other parts of the world charge for the same quality and amount of work. I have heard stories in which, as soon as you ask for something not anyone is able to make well (DB vests, dinner suits with silk facings, tailcoats and morning coats etc.), the price is not quoted in proportion to the "normal suit" price (as it happens on the Row, where a "simple" suit alread costs a certain amount of money), but in relation to what alternatives you have on the market. You cannot go to a twopence tailor to make you a dinner suit, and they know it. So it's either London-Paris-New York (to name a few), or what they charge you for it, which will still be lower than SR prices, but significantly higher in relation to "local" pricing. They just won't do it for any less, because they know there is more specialized work involved, not all tailors have the skill to do it and a pretentious customer doesn't really have an alternative.

[Simon A]

Thanks to all of you for your kind suggestions.

Thanks Mr Chong. I think Chan's do a very nice job, but if they aren't flexible with customer-supplied bespoke fabric, then it won't work out over the long term. I don't want to be hopping backwards and forwards between houses if I can avoid it.

I don't have a problem buying commercial fabric through the tailor (and paying the markup) should they have a supplier; everybody has to eat, and beating someone down to the last dollar won't do much for quality. I appreciate that taking a longer period to develop a relationship with the tailor with their commercial fabric is sensible before proceeding to CMT approach....but we Hong Kongers are somewhat impatient and don't like hearing the words "no" or "can't"

Thanks for your message DFR. I did have a long chat with Mr Yao and found him knowledgable and accommodating. His CMT rates may account for the foregone profit on his own fabric, to some extent, but are still within my budget and considering the time and expertise involved, are still reasonable. I will give him a run I think. I appreciate Mr Chong's input on his issues with Mr Yao, I have discussed fabric length requirements in detail with Gordon and trust that he can make it work. I guess all business relationships (and creative partnerships) have their ups and downs, and hope it works out for you. I will let you know how it goes.