The durability of linen for jackets?

[zeitgeist]

Dear gentlemen,

Amongst the fabrics I am considering for my next bespoke commission are a selection of ~350g Irish linen fabrics, by various English makers - Harrisons, JG Hardy, etc.

I have not had much experience with linen as a jacketing fabric, having used only wool or wool blends before. I have only had one or two 'beater' pants made in linen, an -d even then it was light, very light, and very open - almost voile quite unlike these sturdier appearing samples from the aforementioned makers. They (the pants) were not durable in any sense of the word, and I was just wondering if this was the case as well for heavier linens like the Hardy I am considering.

In particular I am concerned about pilling, and appearing 'threadbare'. Can anyone comment on how mid-heavyweight linens (350-400g) compare to, say, a S120s hard worsted? I understand that this is a very vague question, but any feedback anyone could provide would be much appreciated. Thank you!

[Jordan Marc]

Zeitgeist:

Regardless of weight, pure linen is prone to wrinkles and bagging. Ideally what you want is a linen blend fabric and a tailor adept at interlining and lining the jacket properly and lining the front of the trousers to the knee, so you don't look like you slept on a park bench all night in a humid clime. If, in fact, trousers are involved in your bespoke project, have two pairs made. Of the cloth merchants you mention, go with Harrisons. I've yet to encounter any fabric or advise from the Edinburgh firm with which I wasn't completely satisfied.
E-mail Harrisons with any questions you might have about linen, and some helpful Scot on staff will answer.

JMB

[zeitgeist]

Hmm. Thank you for that. This 'commission' (I do not like that word) is for a odd jacket only.

Another concern that I have is that the pure linens I have come across have a texture that I would describe as, well, not unlike waxed paper. The creasing I can handle and am comfortable with, but what I am concerned about is the fact that the fabric feels stiff and plastic-ky as well - and these are samples from the Harrison's Mersolair book I am referring to as well!

[storeynicholas]

I think that you'll find that the waxiness will ease off. I've always found a decent linen to wear very well - better than say flannel - now there's a fabric to go bald: first the trouser seat goes and then the elbows and cuffs...
NJS

[Jordan Marc]

Nicholas:

As the royalties from your marvelous book continue to accrue, you might consider splashing out on a new heavyweight woollen flannel suit with an extra pair of trousers. While flannel does not necessarily a well-dressed man make, I can't imagine living without it. Whether plain or chalk stripe, it's simply a must! On the off-chance you've sworn off flannel, you might consider a fairly heavy cheviot from Harrisons. Very sturdy stuff.

JMB

[storeynicholas]

Nicholas:

As the royalties from your marvelous book continue to accrue, you might consider splashing out on a new heavyweight woollen flannel suit with an extra pair of trousers. While flannel does not necessarily a well-dressed man make, I can't imagine living without it. Whether plain or chalk stripe, it's simply a must! On the off-chance you've sworn off flannel, you might consider a fairly heavy cheviot from Harrisons. Very sturdy stuff.

JMB

If we end up splitting our time between hot and cold countries, a future flannel might still figure; although, having said that, here today it is a little chilly and just about flannel weather but the number of days like this is relatively low.... but then I suppose that I could have a new flannel suit ... without fear of ever wearing it out!!
NJS

[zeitgeist]

Hardy's linen is more tightly woven than Harrisons and is correspondingly nicer to look at, in my opinion. What this does to wearability and tailoring is probably of no consequence.

Hello Andy, would you say that you prefer Hardy's linen to Harrison's offerings? The Harrisons linen does seem a bit more 'waxy' than the Hardy option.

[radicaldog]

Irish linen in that weight bags and wrinkles, but it lasts. All of these three properties make it one of my favourite cloths, and well worth the extra cost (compared to wool).

P.S. Irish Linen is dry and compact, which makes it springy. To me that is a desirable property. If you want softer cloth you should look for Italian linen. I really don't like it for anything other than shirting though.

[Costi]

In my experience good linen (not flimsy RTW stuff) does last long enough. My linen jackets are all unlined (except sleeves and shoulder blades) and have the bare minimum of chest interlining, no shoulder pads and are self-lined in front. All my linen trouses are completely unlined, because that's how I can take advantage of the weave's porousness that lets even the slightest breeeze pass through (plus linen itself feels cool on the skin). The only area prone to bagging in a jacket is at the elbows, but if the sleeve is a bit on the full side it won't be much of a problem.
A sturdy, heavy linen tailors and wears very well - of course, it will need to be pre-shrunk and ironed before cutting.

[zeitgeist]

In my experience good linen (not flimsy RTW stuff) does last long enough. My linen jackets are all unlined (except sleeves and shoulder blades) and have the bare minimum of chest interlining, no shoulder pads and are self-lined in front. All my linen trouses are completely unlined, because that's how I can take advantage of the weave's porousness that lets even the slightest breeeze pass through (plus linen itself feels cool on the skin). The only area prone to bagging in a jacket is at the elbows, but if the sleeve is a bit on the full side it won't be much of a problem.
A sturdy, heavy linen tailors and wears very well - of course, it will need to be pre-shrunk and ironed before cutting.

Costi,

Thank you for your response. Would you be able to comment on how opting for an unlined jacket affects the way the jacket falls on your body (i.e. the 'drape')?

I was considering going for a self-lined front, but have opted to go with ermazine instead.

[Costi]

Zeitgeist,

If the linen is heavy enough, it won't stick much to your shirt (like wool does) and will "fall" nicely. It helps if the cut is not too trim.
The self-lined front is a good idea, because it keeps the front breathable (a lining is always more closely woven and less permeable than linen). However, the difference may not be discernable. It's also a matter of aesthetics and preference.

[zeitgeist]

Costi, thank you again for your reply. You are correct that I was concerned about the self lining 'catching' on one's shirt. On hindsight, I am a little surprised re: your comment on shrinkage - do you 'wet wash' your linen jackets?

[Costi]

You are most welcome.
I wet wash my linen shirt-jackets (Safari shirts or Sahrienne), which have no internal structure whatsoever - the rows of tight machine stitching that keep the patch pockets and flaps in place are enough to "stiffen" the chest and keep it in shape. However, all linen must be shrunk before cutting, whether for jackets, trousers or shirts.
Place the cloth in a bucket with hot water in the evening and let it soak until next day in the morning. Take it out and hang it on a rope over the bath tub (or outside) without wringing it, avoiding wrinkles. While the cloth is still damp, iron it at high temperature - only then is linen fit for cutting. Or have your tailor do all this for you
If this step is skipped, a mere unexpected spring shower or even some time spent in a humid atmosphere will cause the linen to shrink and pucker at the seams. If it is a jacket with some chest and shoulder structure, it may be completely ruined.

[sartorius]

It seems to me we often assume linen doesn't wear well because of its tendency to crease and wrinkle. In fact, linen is very hard wearing provided it is looked after. For suits, it is worth having your tailor press linen more often than would be necessary for something in wool. I have all my suits pressed once a year minimum. My linen suit I try to take in twice a year - once in the spring so that it's ready for regular wear come the warmer months and, if necessary, in mid/late summer after it's had a good work out. The other option of course would be to have a couple more suits made up.

[amphius]

Does anyone know the website for Hardy's linen? Or alternatively where I can see the fabrics books in London?