National Dress

[culverwood]

National dress, why do some countries have it and others not?



Recently we were at a function where national dress was the dress code. As English people we did not have a national dress and were politely reprimanded by the locals for not dressing in national costume. They would not believe there was not an English national dress.

[storeynicholas]

This is interesting. I suppose that the Highland Scots have their kilts and Highland dress and the Irish favour green but the rest don't have anything that is easily identifiable - maybe it's because we are such a bastard race as a result of all the invasions - until, that is, we became ourselves. Even Britannia is often portrayed in a Centurion's helmet. G W de Saulles' famous engraving of her for the reverse of the Edwardian florin is a most famous example but recently, I hear, they have even phased her out on coinage (except, presumably, on the Britannia). I think that Civil, Naval and Military uniforms (for those that have them) can do duty as national dress, on those occasions when it is called for. Apart from those, maybe full morning or evening dress (depending on the time of day) is always a safe option. We definitely invented those; Gieves & Hawkes maintain that tail coats all derive from their 1748 design for Naval officers' coats and just about all the world still copies G&H Naval and Military designs.
NJS

[Costi]

The English marry outside of England if they like wearing national costume

Queen Marie of Romania (Queen Victoria's granddaughter) in national costume (late twenties)


At the seaside with one of her daughters


With her children

[storeynicholas]

Wonderful pictures, Costi!
NJS.

[stagfoot]

I suppose the English dress has been exported to such a degree that it has become for some time; if in a somewhat evolving state, now the international style.
Could it be that many of the National dresses are what were worn when the local version of English dress supplanted their own?

However if Bavaria brings to mind leather lederhosen, perhaps in similar manner, England, to those aboard, might imagine a stroller or dark three piece suit with a coke and a tightly rolled umbrella.

[Costi]

Thank you, NJS, I am glad you like them I also find them beautiful - and there's more beautiful (old) photography where they came from: http://www.tkinter.smig.net/index.htm

An English princess:


A Romanian queen:


I certainly prefer the latter (and later) version - she had already developed her unique style of dressing, which was very particular. This photograph shows a synthesis of national costume and this personal style consisting of draped cloth and veils made in sort of turban, but not quite what Madame de Staël would have worn.

The queen's drape:

[sartorius]

As English people we did not have a national dress and were politely reprimanded by the locals for not dressing in national costume. They would not believe there was not an English national dress.

On the contrary, English national dress is still worn in England and has been adopted by most of the civilized world - the suit!

[JRLT]

To the extent that there is any English national costume I would say that it is the Beefeater uniform, which being worn exclusively by Tower of London guards goes to show that there is no genuine popular and national costume. Nor is there a costume for women in England. In Wales the opposite applies: for women there is the shawl, apron and stove-pipe hat but nothing much for men. Whereas in Scotland Highland dress goes for both sexes.

But is not the general and correct opinion that none of the UK national costumes are authentic but were rather designed by 19th century antiquarians (or Queen Victoria in the case of HIghland Dress) as a rather romantic approximation of what people used to wear or ought to have worn? Thus elements of peasant dress from the 16/17/18/19 centuries are present but the ensemble is artifical rather than endogenous. I expect that much the same applies to other European countries. Outside of Europe this is not necessarily the case. In Japan for example, if the kimono (and the equivalent for men) is considered as a national costume then this is very much a garment that was actually worn and still is worn.

Parallels can be drawn with the way C19th and C20th composers incorporated supposed folk tunes into their works which, on examination, often reveal themselves as the composers' own inventions, but that is to go off topic.

[storeynicholas]

Costi - that link that you gave above is TREMENDOUS. Many thanks.
NJS

[Simon A]

..

[Frog in Suit]

Most regions of France (Alsace, Brittany, Provence, Auvergne, etc…) have or had their own traditional dress. Much of it can claim some antiquity (cf a portrait by Largillière of a Strabourgeoise lady from the turn of the XVIIIth c. : http://www.musees-strasbourg.org/index. ... e-francais), although one suspects the late XIXth and early XXth somewhat “updated”or “improved” the originals. One could tell the precise origin of a Bretonne by the lace coiffe she wore (cf: http://coiffes.free.fr/coiffes/index.html) and in some areas of western Brittany old women wore them in the 1960s and later. Nowadays traditional costume is only worn by dance and music groups.

Frog in Suit

[zeitgeist]

I think a tweed suit would be quintessentially 'English'.

[marcelo]

At the beauty contest, there is a moment the ladies are expected to appear clad in their respective national dresses. J. Paxman recalls in his book (The English: Portrait of a People) that once "Miss England appeared ludicrously decked out as Beefeater” for sheer lack of any other candidate for a national dress.

[cathach]

This is interesting. I suppose that the Highland Scots have their kilts and Highland dress and the Irish favour green but the rest don't have anything that is easily identifiable

A common misconception, but historically the Irish wore a leine or linen shirt dyed in saffron with wool trews and a woollen mantle.

[NJS]

This is interesting. I suppose that the Highland Scots have their kilts and Highland dress and the Irish favour green but the rest don't have anything that is easily identifiable

A common misconception, but historically the Irish wore a leine or linen shirt dyed in saffron with wool trews and a woollen mantle.

But is this a current national dress - or has a gren tartan kilt been adopted? After all, I am sure that my Cornish ancestors (if one went back far enough) would have been in wolf fur! But, alas, even some of the Cornish have adopted quite spurious modern tartans and kilts as a 'national' dress.
NJS