Scabal Wain Shiell and Harrisons Velvets Comparison Help

[Etutee]

Gents

I need a good velvet for a possible upcoming winter commission. Since I have never used velvet in custom before I want to make sure I get quality cloth that will hold up and wear well. I need Burgundy and Bottle or Dark Green with a good nap.

Possibly choices so far are Scabal, Wain Shiell and Harrisons (weight is about 450-470 gms on all)

Scabal: Burgundy 800643 and 800644 Deep green
Wain Shiell: Dark Burgundy 580710, Burgundy 580709 (same color as Scabal 800643 I think) and Dark Green 580707
Harrisons: Burgundy T2699 and Bottle T2687

I can post pictures but since color is not really an issue, it is not needed as all three are close to what I am looking for. The problem is that Harrison’s velvet has a lower nap and compared to the other two feels a bit like crushed velvet.

So, out of these three makers which one is the best and why? At this price range and with their reputation I hope these velvets are "W" locked (pile locking mechanism) as opposed to "U locked" but if you know for sure please do share. The cost of cloth to me will be Harrisons being a bit cheaper than the other two but I am leaning towards Scabal or Wain Shiell at the moment because of the fabric “hand”.

I would really like to know which is better velvet among these three or if there are other ones. Moreover, if anyone can compare the velvets of Scabal and Wain Shiell that would be great.
Regards

[alden]

Etutee

Sounds like you have some interesting projects afoot...

The WS and Scabal are made by the same factory and it is a toss up. Pick the color shade you prefer. Your tailor will have some experience with each and will advise you well.

Michael

[Etutee]

The WS and Scabal are made by the same factory and it is a toss up.

Hi Michael,

thank you for your response. Do you have a preference between Harrisons (for velvets) and Scabal/WS?

[alden]

Etutee

SC/WS is the best you can buy. It is heavier, more dense and tailors very well

Michael

[Jordan Marc]

Etutee:

Yes, there is another kind of velvet to consider, namely silk-velvet. Although it's used primarily for upholstery, there's no reason why it couldn't be used for a collar on, say, a Chesterfield coat. If it's a velvet smoking jacket you have in mind, replete with quilted silk-satin lapels and turn-back cuffs, companioned by matching Albert slippers richly embroidered with bullion initials, you might want to pass on the silk-velvet and choose mohair-velvet. Silk-velvet has a lustre and nap that is tops, while mohair-velvet is a close second.

Now where do you find this gorgeous stuff? A topnotch fabric house that caters to interior designers and custom upholsterers. These are usually showrooms that are To The Trade Only, so find a licensed decorator to accompany you.

JMB

[Joshua Byrne]

For generally available velvets, the best in my opinion for the density of the pile, though it is not that thick, is Weldon and Rubans, which are made by the same manufacturer, but slightly differ in shade, they have a proportion of silk I believe about 20%. However you will need a very good tailor, as it is much harder to work with than the purely cotton alternatives. Pure silk velvet can be got, both in Italy and France, but crushes very easily, and is fearfully expensive. Added to which I am not aware of it being available as a cut length offering, and it is that much harder again to make than the previously mentioned blends.

[Jordan Marc]

Quite right, Joshua:

Pure silk-velvet can be ungodly expensive, especially when lots of yardage is required. However, for a coat collar only a small piece is required, say, a half yard for the first collar as well as a replacement or two when the initial and secondary collars wear out. Keep in mind that what is considered expensive today is a bargain tomorrow. And the original velvet was made better, too.

So where would Etutee find a half yard of topnotch silk-velvet for sale at a good price?

In the Thursday morning edition of The New York Times, 20 August 2009, there is an article by Charles V. Bagli entitled
New York Seeks To Shore Up Factories In Its Shrinking Garment District. It's worth a read, if you have access to The New York Times website, and it could have just as easily been written about Chicago, Los Angeles, the United Kingdom, or any number of countries on the Continent. When manufacturers and designers can't fill their order books, don't have the money to keep their workers employed and have to shut down, the machinery in their workrooms and their entire inventory of fabrics is sold off at a reduced price. It's the same sad story with the home furnishings market. Much of the machinery can be bought for a song by tailors and home sewers, and the gorgeous fabrics are snapped up by shops that sell unbelieveably beautiful yardage for very reasonable prices. That's where you look for pure silk-velvet or anything else that strikes your fancy. Explore the best fabric stores in your area. Haunt them on a regular basis. And when you see something that you can't live without, grab it and head for your tailor!


JMB

[Etutee]

Etutee:

Now where do you find this gorgeous stuff? A topnotch fabric house that caters to interior designers and custom upholsterers. These are usually showrooms that are To The Trade Only, so find a licensed decorator to accompany you.

JMB

Thanks for your suggestion. Of course I know of silk velvet but there is no way I have any contacts with decorators so that option is out of the question more or less. Secondly, the silk velvets I have seen from Edwardian era (on evening capes) were much more fragile to my eye (and touch) than Scabal / Wain Shiell velvets. Now it is true upholstery industry has to use the most durable velvets because of the obvious reason but they are also very rigid or less flexible unlike their apparel related family and may not tailor well. Finding Silk Velvet today would be a task of enormous patience and effort, which in the end may not even produce satisfactory results because of the different nature of context in which the fabrics will be ultimately used. I have never seen any PURE silk velvets in upholstery or fabric shops anywhere in US and certainly never heard of anyone offering it in Burgundy Or Bottle that can be used for men's garments.

Then there is the issue of color. I really don’t see very many upholstery people carrying bottle green cotton velvets let alone silk ones. These colors of deep burgundy and bottle green are usually not used for upholstery unless I am totally underestimating their selections.

I need 2m of this for a possible jacket / shirt. If you can find me a source for silk velvet that doesn’t cost like $200 per meter I would be more than eager to test it out.

P.S The closest I have ever heard of anyone selling it was through Brioni many years ago. They were offering "Silk Velvet" Jackets and even then I am not positive it was 100% Silk velvet. In US anytime they have more than 10% silk in velvet they start calling it "silk velvet". Those jackets from Brioni were like $5000 or up if I recall correctly.

[Jordan Marc]

Etutee:

For pure silk velvet, you might consider contacting the following:

Brunschwig & Fils, Inc.
75 Virginia Road
North White Plains, NY 10603
Tel. (914) 684-5800
E-mail: staff @brunschwig.com

You might also go to www.brunschwig.com Tap on the heading Fabric and have a look at Lavinia Silk Velvet, a gorgeous stripe that is 100% silk velvet. The width is 55"/139.7cm Although striped silk velvet may not be to your liking, I rather imagine Brunschwig has a large
inventory of other silk velvets that will please you. You might also find the firm willing to deal with you personally. If not, your tailor shouldn't have any problem. Ask Brunschwig to send you cuttings of the colors that interest you. The samples sent may not be large, but the colorways will be accurate. On the off-chance silk velvet hasn't the flexibility you want, ask Brunschwig about mohair velvet.

JMB

[Hesketh]

Pure silk velvet is available in bottle green, I know because I have it in one of my violin cases.
However, as Joshua said, it crushes very easily. This can create a nice effect is some circumstances but I think the collar of a coat would not be one of them. I personally would go for something more robust.

Rob

Edit: When I think of it, the violin case is an antique, and it may be that the velvet is original and no longer available. However, if you are really keen on a silk velvet, try contacting this company http://www.henrybertrand.co.uk/ I don't know if they can suppy themselves, but they should know someone who can.