Manolo Blahnik's A&S DB suits

[tritonus]

There have been many posts regarding A&S. I have found some videos of a prominent A&S customer and thought it might be interesting for some of our distinguished members to have a look at them instead of looking at static photographs.

Regards,

T.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbvSmOroU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wD74ArtUg8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFTan1OpSL4

[uppercase]

Thanks for those clips; it was interesting to see an A&S in motion. They are a rare bird to find pictured on the internet.

Quite alot of drape there, no?!

[Concordia]

Quite alot of drape there, no?!

There would be a lot less if he buttoned the jackets.

[Costi]

Quite alot of drape there, no?!

There would be a lot less if he buttoned the jackets.

Indeed, in the first and third clip he is wearing a DB coat unbuttoned, so what we see there is not "drape". In the second clip he wears a DB (buttoned at the waist) and is seated, so it is normal for the coat to reflect that.

[Maxomoto]

Still - my feeling is that the jackets are just too big and therefore drape a lot (also at the arms/shoulders). Might be comfortable but does not look flattering or "neat" (imho).

Regards. Max

[Costi]

IMHO and according to my tastes neat is not flattering or desirable. I don't like to see clothes cling to the body or follow contours closely - not even underwear! Clothes may fit very well and be obviously cut and sewn bespoke for someone's body without looking like a second skin. Clothes need volume, they need to breathe, they are a complement to the body and not its exact copy. It is not at all about how challenging it is to create a lean or draped coat - this is an argument pertaining to clothes, not dress. A painter can very well ruin a painting with a perfectionist, realistic attitude or approach of the subject. I like to see a masterful stroke of the brush, an arched line that gives life and tension to a contour, exquisite proportions - not a photo-like "static nature" in a hotel room. A suit is an artistic INTERPRETATION of the body, not a 3D scan. This is why I will never believe in computer-made patterns. They can make clothes that fit, but they cannot DRESS us! Only the eye can do it.

[Maxomoto]

@Costi: This is a very "digital" argument. Yes, clothing should not be like Spandex and be a second skin. Agreed. And I am not talking about Thom Browne here. But there is quite a spectrum of possible interpretations.

There are numerous examples of fine suits in this board that have a "neat" silhouette but still have some drape and are not a second skin or anything like that. Mr. Aldens suits should be a perfect example.

In the case of Mr. Blahniks suits shown in the vidoes, imho I think it is just too much room and no real silhouette left. I have the same issue with many Flusser suits one sees on pictures. Maybe I just don't like the artists "interpretation" - even if the artist works for A&S.


Regards,

Max

[soupcon]

His coat looks more like a stylized smock than a lounge suit.It wouldn't be unheard of for a fashion designer to request his own cut by his favourite tailor.Arnold Scassi used to(not sure about now) have Edward Sexton make a single breasted peak lapel suit that buttoned like an overcoat and was very voluminous.

[Costi]

Of course there may be various degrees of fullness in a coat, according to the wearer's needs and tastes. With regard to Mr. Blahnik's coats, I think it is hard to judge them because of the way he wears them (DB unbuttonned and hands in trouser pockets pulling the skirt back like a curtain) or because of the mise-en-scene of the interview (seated in awkward position with DB coat buttoned). He is obviously not after a pretty look!
However, my issue is not with Mr. Blahnik's suits, but with what I think is a confusion between neatness and fit. As soon as we see a couple of creases in a coat we panic that it is miscut or misfitted. I think cloth does not look best moulded to the wearer, it needs to show its character, to "drape" on the body, following its general contour with ease. Mr. Alden's coats are mostly cut in heavier cloth which, when in intentional excess, does not easily form creases, but the fullness is there alright.

[uppercase]

With regard to Mr. Blahnik's coats, I think it is hard to judge them because of the way he wears them (DB unbuttonned and hands in trouser pockets pulling the skirt back like a curtain) or because of the mise-en-scene of the interview (seated in awkward position with DB coat buttoned). He is obviously not after a pretty look!

Well, the debate will continue as to how much drape is too much drape but Blahnik certainly does look and act comfortable in his clothes!

There seem to be alot of men in creative fields who seem to embrace a looser, more blousy sillhouette.

Could the AS 'look' almost be called casual, artsy and throw away with a bit of disdain implied for looking too 'put together'?

By comparison, who would you feel more comfortable starting a conversation up with at a cocktail party: a man in tweed, a man in a blousy white coat, or a precisely put-together man?:

[alden]

Uppercase,

Boy oh boy, talk about stacked decks, you give drape two plough horses and then put up a Kentucky Derby winning thoroughbred to make your point. Remind me never to play cards with you!

Valentino is a master of dress and his light gray flannel suit is a remarkable garment by any measure. And, more importantly, he wears it well, with elegant simplicity. The collar of his shirt is discrete, has tie space and the silk knit tie is very handsome. But.....

To answer your question, I would love to sit down and have a drink with these two A&S ers. So I will match your Valentino and raise you a Cooper and a Dietrich.



Does Cooper really look all that bad to you in this A&S?



Now, Uppercase, the figure you are supposed to be looking at is standing on the left, I think. The person on the right is wearing Neapolitan drape of an entirely different kind. Cooper is wearing a nice Brisa blue PoW in this picture. He isn't a fright, is he?



BTW, I found a truly exceptional Cooper picture while googling. Have you ever seen this one?



Cooper’s coat is definitely of Italian manufacture. The shape of the extended shoulders, the drape, the shape of the lapels, the breast pocket all look Neapolitan. Is Cooper wearing Rubinacci Senior? What do you see? Had Mariano found this picture he would have it displayed in a balloon over Central Park, so maybe it isn’t R after all. But it is an intriguing picture of a lovely coat. Frederick March is also wearing a great drape coat that seems to be of English or American origin. The open seam shoulder seems quite natural and soft. The overall effect is quite good. I don't know what film this is from but given the hat style it looks like early 40s.

Now here is a little secret just between the two of us. I have been in nearly a hundred tailor’s shops all over this little globe of ours and you know what? I rarely have seen a bad suit of any style come out of the tailor’s hands during those visits. But you know, I have rarely seen customers who even had the rumor of a clue as to how to wear them. The drape versus Roman versus Huntsman or whatever is a straw man because the real issue is not there. The real issue is dress and both Valentino and Cooper knew how to do it very well. Oh, and Uppercase, so do you.

Cheers

Michael

[Jovan the Un1337]

Uppercase: The men in your first picture scares me for some reason. I don't know if it's the hair, his dour expression or what.

I like Cooper's style in Alden's post, though the suit which is supposed to be PoW reads like windowpane. (Not a fan of windowpane.)

[uppercase]

Uppercase,

Boy oh boy, talk about stacked decks, you give drape two plough horses and then put up a Kentucky Derby winning thoroughbred to make your point. Remind me never to play cards with you!


Michael

Believe me when I say that I wasn't trying to purposely stack the decks and it was really just a matter that the thread's subject matter was Blahnik and I just played the hand that I was dealt.

Who knew that a quick search of Blahnik would turn up such rich material!?

Now I assume that both Blahnik and Carter are wearing recent AS productions.

Are we pleased?

Now adding Cooper to the mix, well, talk about stacking the deck!! If those are AS suits, well, they are beautiful. But that was AS 70 years ago, no?

In any case, what has not changed much is that the girls in Naples still , surprisingly, look like Sophia (and I am serious here) and though tailoring changes, for better or worse, at least some important things in life change little, if at all.

Now here is a little secret just between the two of us. I have been in nearly a hundred tailor’s shops all over this little globe of ours and you know what? I rarely have seen a bad suit of any style come out of the tailor’s hands during those visits. But you know, I have rarely seen customers who even had the rumor of a clue as to how to wear them. The drape versus Roman versus Huntsman or whatever is a straw man because the real issue is not there. The real issue is dress and both Valentino and Cooper knew how to do it very well.

This makes more and more sense to me.

Now let's forget about Blahnik's red shoes for a moment, but what is going on with Greydon Carter?: he is making all the right moves in the classic repertoire: suede shoes, Breanish heather tweed coat, grey flannel trousers, simple blue print tie and subtle blue striped shirt...something the Duke of Windsor might have put together himself.

So why do I suspect that the results would be so different?

[alden]

Now adding Cooper to the mix, well, talk about stacking the deck!! If those are AS suits, well, they are beautiful. But that was AS 70 years ago, no?

The first suit is A&S without a doubt. The second is probably of Italian make.
I have seen A&S suits made like that these days.

In any case, what has not changed much is that the girls in Naples still , surprisingly, look like Sophia (and I am serious here) and though tailoring changes, for better or worse, at least some important things in life change little, if at all.

It’s nice to know there is a silhouette we can agree on.

Now let's forget about Blahnik's red shoes for a moment, but what is going on with Greydon Carter?: he is making all the right moves in the classic repertoire: suede shoes, Breanish heather tweed coat, grey flannel trousers, simple blue print tie and subtle blue striped shirt...something the Duke of Windsor might have put together himself.

Only those who believe that the “clothes make the man” would be puzzled by your question. I know the answer.

Cheers

Michael

[Degendorff]

This picture isn't that good, but it seems that his suits don't 'drape' that much if he stands and his coats are buttoned: