Idealized drape

[uppercase]

There is no padding or wadding at all. However, the sleevehead does 'puff' a little bit more. This effect varies between all my jackets and appears to settle over time. .

Foof, I haven't seen a Neapolitan coat with no padding/wadding in the shoulder. Are you sure that there is nothing there at all? Is a picture of the inside of the shoulder possible?

[mafoofan]

Foof, I haven't seen a Neapolitan coat with no padding/wadding in the shoulder. Are you sure that there is nothing there at all? Is a picture of the inside of the shoulder possible?

Pictures of inside the shoulder? My jackets are all fully lined, unfortunately. But let me see if I can describe: the structure in the shoulder feels like a continuation of the canvas in the chest. If you feel the sleevehead, you can feel the canvas slightly portruding into the shoulder of the sleeve. On the portruding canvas-like material, there seems to be a thin layer of fluff. I think that is felt, according to Iammatt. All my jackets are like this.

Didn't the jacket you showed me have no padding? It felt even softer than mine.

[uppercase]

Those white pads below are the padding in the shoulder; not much but there they are:

[mafoofan]

Huh, as far as I can feel, there's nothing like that in my jackets. It just feels like canvas. I asked Mariano about padding and wadding when I ordered my jackets and he assured me there was none; of course, that could have easily been a language issue at work.

Iammatt is the guy to ask about Rubinacci construction, though. I'll shoot him a PM.

[iammatt]

Mine are like this, though the padding Rubinacci uses looks to be slightly lighter. More of an open weave of wool. Not really sure about that, though.

Some have a bit of felt under the sleevehead, on the sleeve side for support, and some don't. It seems to depend on the fabric, and probably also on whatever the tailor wanted to do that day.

[mafoofan]

Matt, can you feel the padding from outside, or do you just know it's there? I'm probably just not able to tell what's going on.

[iammatt]

Matt, can you feel the padding from outside, or do you just know it's there? I'm probably just not able to tell what's going on.

I looked at the shoulder of an unlined jacket once. There are a few cuttings of light wool, only on the back of the shoulder, only near the end of the shoulder line. I don't think I can feel it, but I haven't tried.

[soupcon]

That is a stand alone piece of wadding, not padding.Padding is a pre-formed horseshoe shaped cap that fits over the shoulder head and parts of the trapezius, and wadding,in layers, is found inside that cap.Removing a layer will alter the pitch of the pad,but there is still an uniformity of line that isn't seen in a wadded shoulder.

UC, for comparison's sake, could you take a snap of your blue Caraceni coat and see it it is wadded or padded? I suspect it is padded, but a photo would confirm.

[uppercase]

Here are some photos of the Caraceni Roma coat, showing shoulder wadding and chest canvas. There is certainly more wadding than the Neapolitan Marigliano uses; looks like about 3-4 wadding pads in the Caraceni shoulder.

[Hartline]

Should the postings discussing fullness and drape be merged?

Here are a few pictures that I've come across recently. The first one is Adrian (Adolph Greenberg) from August 1939 with drape that is excessive. It seems Corbis owns the rights to this photo, but Vanity Fair ran a colorized version a few years ago, and the pattern in the suit’s cloth is fantastic.

The rest are of Frédéric Malle in a tan suit. The off-set ticket pocket gives a clue as to the maker or to others who make in that style.

[alden]

As a way of comparing a very natural make, you can see the shoulder of my 1000 gms whipcord covert coat below:



Cheers

M Alden

[storeynicholas]

That is a stand alone piece of wadding, not padding.Padding is a pre-formed horseshoe shaped cap that fits over the shoulder head and parts of the trapezius, and wadding,in layers, is found inside that cap.Removing a layer will alter the pitch of the pad,but there is still an uniformity of line that isn't seen in a wadded shoulder.

UC, for comparison's sake, could you take a snap of your blue Caraceni coat and see it it is wadded or padded? I suspect it is padded, but a photo would confirm.

All my coats (bar two) are lightly wadded and not padded in the shoulder; one is padded and, I suppose, also wadded. Did Scholte use either wadding or padding - or both? He was apprenticed at Johns & Pegg who were certainly renowned military tailors. He has been said to have adapted aspects of the military style, that he had learned, for civilian dress. An especial feature was small, high arm scyes - lending ease of upward and circular movement - despite the fact that the last actual cavalry charge by the British army had been on 2nd September 1898 at Omdurman, by the 21st Lancers. This is still an A&S feature. This armhole was the initial distinguishing feature of his cutting style - although Davies & Son always claim that their military armhole is bigger and oval. But it is very difficult to find out about the padding and wadding issue in relation to Scholte - and where this fits in. My Davies & Son coats - both for suits and top coats include just light shoulder wadding - still hugging the outline and leaving a shoulder 'drop' on view. That is also true of an early suit coat with the slight pagoda shoulders. Certainly, the heavy uniform coats of some regiments were pretty stiff with heavy canvass and heavy cloth - but is the stiffness of the chassis, or the small, high arm holes the distinguishing feature between hard and soft tailoring styles or is it the shoulder wadding and padding or both - even all three? The more one looks at this issue the harder it seems to become to draw the line - if there is one. Many of my father's old bespoke suits and coats made between the 1950s and 1970s were made of heavy cloth; very heavily wadded in the shoulder (but not padded) - although at 6 feet tall, 13-14 stones in weight and with a large frame, he did not really need it - yet one would say, looking at them, that they were examples of 'soft' tailoring - with, for me, distinctive, very even, 'up-and-over' shoulders.
NJS

[Costi]

... the stronger, squared off shoulder looks altogether more formal, put together and proper. Which shoulder would you choose for your dinner jacket? And so, for a business suit….

Regarding this formal/casual or business/leisure distinction in terms of structured & padded vs. draped & soft-shouldered - perhaps things are not so black and white. Rather, they are...

...midnight blue



... and ivory



These two examples look very elegant to me and I would not rather see a lean DJ with a structured shoulder on the Duke at all. The drape is equally present in his tweed jackets, blazers, city suits and eveningwear and it doesn't look out of place in any of them; because it is consistently well executed throughout his wardrobe, without exaggerating it for sportswear or skimping it on evening clothes.

[uppercase]

Are these Scholtes?