Ladies, you have to shame them into elegance!

[alden]

I was invited to a lovely country house in Italy recently. Warming myself in front of an enormous limestone fireplace before dinner, thoughts of olives and harvesting were interrupted by the arrival of three lovely young ladies who asked if they could borrow my body for a short while. As I was calculating the odds of winning a trifecta at my advanced age, the filles trotted me into another room and placed me directly in front of their three partners, spouses, fiances who were engaged happily in conversation regarding the day’s hunt. “Look at him now, look carefully!”, they implored as they pointed at me, running their fingers up and down the length of my figure, “this is the way you are supposed to dress! This is class! We want you to dress like this! Look! Why do you always look like slobs when you could look like him.”

Well, I was a bit embarrassed by this unexpected attention especially considering the three gents concerned were among my best friends. But the lovely ladies were right. They definitely lacked allure in jeans, sloppy shirt, and jumper, topped of by some sort of technical cloth sporting coat. I was not wearing anything too special myself, an argument I tried to use in my defense, but the sheer presence of a very special brown Shetland coat made all the difference. Condemning looks furrowed the brows of my three judges. I explained that the culture of the jacket was vanishing and this due to the simple misconception that a jacket was somehow uncomfortable. The argument seemed to miss its mark. But the ladies, undaunted, persisted in their shaming exhortation to elegance.

When the ladies left the room, I expected to hear the actions of Berettas slamming shut. Instead, one of my friends asked if I could help him make a tweed jacket and maybe a suit of clothes for his upcoming wedding. At least one out of the three heard the message and reacted. So maybe a strong dose of shame did a young man good and brought him back into the light.

Ladies, if you are reading this, do come to our aid!

Cheers

M Alden

[Jordan Marc]

Michael:

Young ladies fawning all over you in an attempt to steer their slovenly mates to dressing well does not bode well for the futures of the three
couples. A young man needs to find his own tailor, who will take him in hand as to what works and what doesn't. It happens in incremental stages of suggestions, barking and cajoling, until the man develops his own preferences and style. A woman who tries to dress her mate makes a fool of him. They mean well but run the risk of turning the fellow into a
henpecked twit.

While I love women dearly, I wouldn't think of asking a woman to come along to any of my tailors, shirtmakers or bootmakers -- nor would I accept a tie or any other accessory as a gift from a woman. I trust my
own taste implicitly. And women should do the same for themselves.

JMB

[alden]

If you've ever spent any time in Sicily you would know that the men there are real men and the women like it that way. They would appear over the top machos in most anglosaxon matriarchal climes, so there is little chance of them being hen pecked. The guys got a bit of justified teasing for dressing in rags. Especially since they are all three issued from noble families whose forefathers, judging from the pictures on the walls, were very elegant.

While I love women dearly, I wouldn't think of asking a woman to come along to any of my tailors, shirtmakers or bootmakers -- nor would I accept a tie or any other accessory as a gift from a woman. I trust my
own taste implicitly. And women should do the same for themselves.

I could not agree with you more.

M Alden

[masterfred]

^^Alden, I know what you mean in the above statements about Southern Italian and Sicilian men, but I couldn't help but smile in the reading of it; my time in that area (though not as extensive as yours) convinces me that the machismo-laden Mediterranean culture is dominated by mamma, sorella, and zia in a way that many Northern European men wouldn't abide!

[alden]

Alden, I know what you mean in the above statements about Southern Italian and Sicilian men, but I couldn't help but smile in the reading of it; my time in that area (though not as extensive as yours) convinces me that the machismo-laden Mediterranean culture is dominated by mamma, sorella, and zia in a way that many Northern European men wouldn't abide!

Ha! Oh, so very true...but mostly la mamma!

The mama is the center/creator of the family and papa is only the provider. “She who must be adored’ is adored. Actually the attachment to the family is a refreshing change for someone coming from a more reptilian culture. But it has many disadvantages as well as embodied in the Italian phrase parenti serpenti! …folks and fangs!

Cheers

[whyescalar]

During downtime, I'll live in jeans, shirt and sweater [jumper]...and trainers! I'll even wear a fifteen yo nylon anorak to maintain a furtive connection to misspent alpinist past.

The post, however, notes something I have noticed in traditional societies or mature circles: women like men who look/act like men. Woman comment they dress for other women, and younger fillies often attempt to bend their mates to more colorful, designer stuff in lieu of sober business dress. Enter near-universal feminine desire of the alpha-male in what society calls "the power suit." This is usually sober business attire, well-fitting, good quality. One of those factors they can't explain, but know when they see it.

I consider myself young (mid-thirties), but appreciate men grow wiser in their forties. I recently read somewhere the difference between Italian and English men is the former's dressing to attract women, the latter's to fit into a club. I would submit older, wiser men around the world have set a benchmark, knowing a certain kind of woman desires men dressed more traditionally.

[ottovbvs]

There's no doubt a majority of sophisticated women over 30 love to see men dressed in an alpha male style. It can be flamboyant but you must avoid foppishness or looking like a refugee from a circus. It's very hard to define the dividing line but it's there alright. For example the ascot or cravat in its classical form has imho crossed over the line into archaism/foppishness whereas a silk or linen scarf inside an open knecked shirt has not. I realise this is probably a personal thing but there it is. Generally speaking these women love the old staples. Classic fabrics in classic patterns matched with classic shirts in classic checks, stripes and so forth. And then the right shoes, hose and appropriate outerwear. I spend a lot of time in NYC and you do see some great dressed guys in winter and summer and these are the guys who get the female glances.

[Luca]

Absolutely no question about it. A fine suit/tie/shirt/shoes combo gets 'em every time.

As for the fine line between elegance, foppishness and ridicule I do agree that most women, being very conformist creatures, will look askance on anything too eccentric. Nonethless, as I've said before, the attitude and spirit with which one dons even a cravat are essential.

One caveat. At a party a couple of years ago, the birthday 'girl' complimented my attire lavishly but added: "you look better that I do!". After she repeated that snippet, I got the hint. Removed a couple of key accessories and returned a smile to her face. Noblesse oblige.