Collar Spread

[carl browne]

Once again I go to the fountain of sartorial knowledge.

This time I would like to know a little about shirt collars.

I would suppose that if your neck is a little longer, your collar needs to be a bit higher than usual. But is there any benefit to making it even a little higher than that? I'm talking fractions of inches, here. How high can you go without looking like Tom Wolfe or Karl Lagerfeld, who seem freakish?

The other question is about point length and collar spread. Are there any general rules about this? I would think the ideal collar would have to harmonize with the breadth of your shoulders, the size of your head, and the shape of your face.

But how do you figure this?

[radicaldog]

A very incomplete answer: I think collar spread and height are partly relative to shirt type. A button down shirt, for example, doesn't take a very spread-out and/or high collar. So it seems to me that one cannot talk of collar height and spread without reference to the broader context of the whole shirt. And then, of course, different types of shirts go with different outfits, and so on.

[alden]

I would think the ideal collar would have to harmonize with the breadth of your shoulders, the size of your head, and the shape of your face.

Hello Carl

You have answered your own question, but as to how to implement the knowledge you possess, it takes a bit of practical application. I suspect that most of the LL members, including yours truly, have simply had to experiment and work with gifted craftsmen to achieve positive results. There are not a great many shortcuts and there are no cookie cutter answers or rules. Dressing well is an art form and if it were all that easy, men would look a bit different than they do. I suspect that the slide towards troggie dress is simply due to the perceived difficulty of doing things well. The fear of appearing ridiculous drives most men to wear jogging clothes everyday and even to work.

I have a giraffe neck and wear a size 8 hat. My coats and shirts are cut with enough collar height (+3/8") to modify my image and yet remain discrete, what we call "seen, but not seen." Lagerfeld and Wolfe are contrived in their approach and hence veer towards the foppish. Of course they are show business personalities and their eccentricities are part of their act. For the rest of us, its a bit of a balancing act. You have to mask without masking, and try without trying.

If you have a large head collar points of 9 cms would not be out of the question but I would not suggest anything larger. You should also insist on at least 1.5 cms of tie space and a moderately spread collar...once again, either too open or too closed can delegate your collar to the dreaded depths of affectation. Navigate yourself far away from this omnipresent fashion monster.

Good luck and keep the questions coming

Michael Alden

[carl browne]

Mr. Alden:

Thank you for your response, which I think cuts right to the heart of the matter.

I share with you the giraffe's neck, yet my head is small, my shoulders broad, and my face (at least the parts that are shaved) round. There's a balancing act that needs to take place, I think. My shirts are from Turnbull and bespoke, and the collars are house style, and pretty average in proportion.

So how to negotiate this? The long neck wants a high collar, but the round face and small head want a lower one. The broad shoulders want spread collars, but narrower ones with longer points may be more flattering to a round face.

Well, something's not right--not bad--but not perfection either.

If your neck band is wide, do you have two collar buttons?

Trial and error's going to be really expensive!

[alden]

Carl,

Given my statements about the importance of the shirt/tie combination, you will surely realize the necessity of having a well cut collar for your shirt. But you need not fret about it too much. Stay with a moderate design as described above. Your large shoulders and long neck make the call for a higher collar an imperative. You can go two buttons or one (and I use both.) The key is to have your coats cut with a higher collar as well..the two do go together.

If you send me a picture by email, I will try to give you some advice.

The trial and error should not be too expensive as long as you go slow and let your knowledge and eye catch up and surpass your desire to acquire.

Cheers

Michael

[carl browne]

Exceedingly helpful, Mr. Alden, thank you.

It leads to an interesting question: My relationship with my shirtmaker predates that of my tailor. Do you think the tailor would be prone to fitting the coat to the shirt? This seems like letting the tail wag the dog. I've never heard from him the dreaded, "Do you always wear your shirts like that, sir?" So I can't imagine the situation is too bad. I think we're talking about quarters of inches.

My tailor also makes shirts, and I trust him. Do you think there's a benefit to giving one man complete control?

You have been very gracious, and this thread seems to be fairly personal. I only hope that others are struggling with the same questions, and your advice benefits them as well as me.