I anticipate reading Sator's assertion that the suit fits so well because of its weight. And I wouldn't gainsay him.Sir Henry wrote:. . . a 20 Oz tweed . . . . [is] the best fitting suit i've seen from your tailor . . . .
A 20 Oz Three Piece Lounge Suit
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schneidergott
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:13 pm
- Location: Castle Douglas, Scotland
Wool as a material has the capacity to absorb a lot of moisture, mainly in form of steam.
So theoretically, the more wool, the less sweat on your skin.
SG
So theoretically, the more wool, the less sweat on your skin.
SG
When l made my previous comment on Sator's nice suit, l was on a laptop and only got to see the first picture. Being on my proper computer, l have seen all the pictures and feel l must make further comment.
Something which really stood out was the side view pictures of Sator's suit. lf you look at the collar, you will notice that it actually doesn't sit against the shirt collar. There is quite a noticable gap, similar to how a RTW suit collar would fit. While l love the look of the suit, l do feel that the collar needs serious attention.
Best wishes Sator. Sir Henry.
Something which really stood out was the side view pictures of Sator's suit. lf you look at the collar, you will notice that it actually doesn't sit against the shirt collar. There is quite a noticable gap, similar to how a RTW suit collar would fit. While l love the look of the suit, l do feel that the collar needs serious attention.
Best wishes Sator. Sir Henry.
Not possible when there is a 20 Oz waistcoat between the coat and the shirt. Yes, the W-C has a lining back. But there is enough waistcoat cloth around the shoulder areas to cause the coat to lift marginally, and if I take a marginally stoop posture is I have for the picture, you get a small gap. It cannot be corrected without causing a roll under the collar. Removing the waistcoat eliminates the 1/3cm gap. Also the collar itself is much thicker due to the nature of the cloth. When there are multiple layers of cloth now, the total distance from the shirt is greater even when there is no gap. The camera flash mere exaggerates it.Sir Henry wrote:
Something which really stood out was the side view pictures of Sator's suit. lf you look at the collar, you will notice that it actually doesn't sit against the shirt collar. There is quite a noticable gap, similar to how a RTW suit collar would fit. While l love the look of the suit, l do feel that the collar needs serious attention.
EDIT: checked again with W-C on. There is no gap to eliminate. It is a particularly annoying feature of the internet that every crease etc that typically show up in photos are expected to be eliminated for the professional photo shoot.
http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum
Last edited by Sator on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yes, l was wondering about that (l thought that could have been the reason). l don't have experience in heavy bespoke tweeds, so thankyou for enlightening me on the subject.Sator wrote:Not possible when there is a 20 Oz waistcoat between the coat and the shirt. .Sir Henry wrote:
Something which really stood out was the side view pictures of Sator's suit. lf you look at the collar, you will notice that it actually doesn't sit against the shirt collar. There is quite a noticable gap, similar to how a RTW suit collar would fit. While l love the look of the suit, l do feel that the collar needs serious attention.
Regards.
The best source of beautiful fuller bodied cloths comes from Harrisons/Lear Browne & Dunsford (LBD). They offer a couple of books of P&B Universal cloths - all non-supers, in weights ranging from 15/16-20/21 Oz.
http://www.lbd-harrisons.com/lbd_about.html
They offer fabulous cloth, and these are easily my favourite books of anything at the moment. Thank you Luk-Cha for drawing my attention to them.
The other book that I rather fancy is the 16 Oz book from Lesser.
http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum
http://www.lbd-harrisons.com/lbd_about.html
They offer fabulous cloth, and these are easily my favourite books of anything at the moment. Thank you Luk-Cha for drawing my attention to them.
The other book that I rather fancy is the 16 Oz book from Lesser.
http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum
Last edited by Sator on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oh noes....
I am afraid I don't really have much access to Carlo Barbera cloths locally so I can't really say much.
As far as selecting cloths go, I find that heavy cloths don't always run as warm in the winter as you might expect. The only exception is if the cloth is a flannel, has a nap, or flannelised finish to it, when it really does run much warmer - quite irrespective of the weight. Worsteds that are also a bit more loosely woven so that they feel a bit springy/spongy also run warmer.
Heavy cloths that are tightly woven run cool. For example, I have a pair of 22 Oz cavalry twill trousers that feel like ice when I first put them on in winter, and remain icy cold in cool weather.
A Lesser 16 Oz three piece I have also has a tight weave (it is a herringbone ie a twill weave) with a dry, smooth and crisp hand, and it runs remarkably cool - even in 36 C weather. I have also just chosen a P&B Universal 18 Oz micro-herringbone because it feels crisp, tight and smooth, indeed much more so than the 19-20/21 Oz offerings from the same book.
The 20 Oz (I swear it feels heavier c.23 Oz) in this thread is also 20% cashmere, has a rather springy, soft hand, and runs much warmer in cool weather. However, once you get into industrial strength insulation like this, it still runs a bit cooler in extreme heat than expected. After all, insulation works two ways - to shut out the heat as well as the cold.
I find that the half-way (in the middle of nowhere) weights like 13 Oz are the worst in that they insulate enough to trap in the warmth but not enough to shut out the heat. At that point, you either have to drop down to a tropical weight to avoid overheating or go up in weight to get more thermal heat insulation.
So, my advice when choosing is that if you want to keep warm at all cost go for a cloth that has a hand like woollen flannel, and if you want to stay cool go for a tightly woven cloth with a dry, crisp hand. The latter type of cloth will tend to shut out the cold drafts as well as keeping you comfortable in a well heated environment.
To test the tensile strength, I tend to bunch up the cloth and see how quickly it "snaps" back into shape. If the reaction of the cloth is more docile, it will usually have a soft, velvety and fluffy feel to it, like a blanket. These run warm. The really tautly woven and crispy ones actually make a snapping sound when you let go. These ones laugh at attempts to crease them and run cool. Although all heavier cloth tailors well, smooth and tightly woven cloth with more tensile strength tailors particularly crisply. The trouser creases look like razor blades, and the coat will look like armour. It is something that you just have to experience.
http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum
As far as selecting cloths go, I find that heavy cloths don't always run as warm in the winter as you might expect. The only exception is if the cloth is a flannel, has a nap, or flannelised finish to it, when it really does run much warmer - quite irrespective of the weight. Worsteds that are also a bit more loosely woven so that they feel a bit springy/spongy also run warmer.
Heavy cloths that are tightly woven run cool. For example, I have a pair of 22 Oz cavalry twill trousers that feel like ice when I first put them on in winter, and remain icy cold in cool weather.
A Lesser 16 Oz three piece I have also has a tight weave (it is a herringbone ie a twill weave) with a dry, smooth and crisp hand, and it runs remarkably cool - even in 36 C weather. I have also just chosen a P&B Universal 18 Oz micro-herringbone because it feels crisp, tight and smooth, indeed much more so than the 19-20/21 Oz offerings from the same book.
The 20 Oz (I swear it feels heavier c.23 Oz) in this thread is also 20% cashmere, has a rather springy, soft hand, and runs much warmer in cool weather. However, once you get into industrial strength insulation like this, it still runs a bit cooler in extreme heat than expected. After all, insulation works two ways - to shut out the heat as well as the cold.
I find that the half-way (in the middle of nowhere) weights like 13 Oz are the worst in that they insulate enough to trap in the warmth but not enough to shut out the heat. At that point, you either have to drop down to a tropical weight to avoid overheating or go up in weight to get more thermal heat insulation.
So, my advice when choosing is that if you want to keep warm at all cost go for a cloth that has a hand like woollen flannel, and if you want to stay cool go for a tightly woven cloth with a dry, crisp hand. The latter type of cloth will tend to shut out the cold drafts as well as keeping you comfortable in a well heated environment.
To test the tensile strength, I tend to bunch up the cloth and see how quickly it "snaps" back into shape. If the reaction of the cloth is more docile, it will usually have a soft, velvety and fluffy feel to it, like a blanket. These run warm. The really tautly woven and crispy ones actually make a snapping sound when you let go. These ones laugh at attempts to crease them and run cool. Although all heavier cloth tailors well, smooth and tightly woven cloth with more tensile strength tailors particularly crisply. The trouser creases look like razor blades, and the coat will look like armour. It is something that you just have to experience.
http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum
Last edited by Sator on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The 22 Oz cavalry twill comes from J&J Minnis:
http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardy ... =365456563?
It's an usual choice for a suiting but it would make a stunning reefer jacket /'blazer' given the military origins of both cloth and coat. Nonetheless, I love the beautiful twill design, which is not as strong as you might expect, and I am wanting to get enough for a two piece lounge suit. I have a sample and it's an extremely attractive shade of navy to boot. Neither Harrisons/LBD nor Lesser offer anything like it. I have trousers of this cloth but not a coat.
LBD do, however, offer a 21 Oz navy twill in the P&B Universal books that isn't quite as tightly woven or crisp. But it costs substantially less, so I am having to give it fair bit of thought.
I hope that a LL Cloth Club project will come up with a 22 Oz city suiting city that is as tightly woven and as crisp as the cavalry twill; perhaps a nice and taut twill weave with a dark grey herringbone design.
http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardy ... =365456563?
It's an usual choice for a suiting but it would make a stunning reefer jacket /'blazer' given the military origins of both cloth and coat. Nonetheless, I love the beautiful twill design, which is not as strong as you might expect, and I am wanting to get enough for a two piece lounge suit. I have a sample and it's an extremely attractive shade of navy to boot. Neither Harrisons/LBD nor Lesser offer anything like it. I have trousers of this cloth but not a coat.
LBD do, however, offer a 21 Oz navy twill in the P&B Universal books that isn't quite as tightly woven or crisp. But it costs substantially less, so I am having to give it fair bit of thought.
I hope that a LL Cloth Club project will come up with a 22 Oz city suiting city that is as tightly woven and as crisp as the cavalry twill; perhaps a nice and taut twill weave with a dark grey herringbone design.
It's not a suit, but I just had a final fitting today on a jacket that Chris Despos is making for me. The cloth is a 19 oz tweed from the W. Bill Keepers book. It is tightly twisted and I think that it probably goes beyond thornproof, all the way to buckshot proof. The cloth takes and shows shape beautifully, even without the final pressing. With the wonderful job Chris has done cutting and making it, the coat feels molded to my neck, shoulders, and upper back and feels completely weightless. Much credit to Chris and I can't wait to wear it.
I don't have a lot of need for suits, but Chris is about to cut one for me of Scabal's Reid and Taylor Silver Gander, a 16 oz tightly twisted Scottish cloth that has been discussed here before. That cloth reminds me of a lot of cloths that we used to work with 30 years ago. (I know that's still tissue paper for Sator).
Regards,
Joel
I don't have a lot of need for suits, but Chris is about to cut one for me of Scabal's Reid and Taylor Silver Gander, a 16 oz tightly twisted Scottish cloth that has been discussed here before. That cloth reminds me of a lot of cloths that we used to work with 30 years ago. (I know that's still tissue paper for Sator).
Regards,
Joel
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