Huntsman MTM?

[alebrady01]

Has anyone tried their MTM? I am curious how flexible/accomodating it would be with respect to fit/styling. Obviously, not to the same level of bespoke but how 'customized' is the fit of their MTM to simply OTR? For example, could changes/accomodations be made for a low shoulder, fuller trouser, higher rise, armhole height, etc - low shoulder is probably the most imperative issue I confront with OTR

In my experiences with several different brands MTM, the level of fit adjustments varied greatly (from not much more than alterations to a RTW garment to pretty extensive modifications of the standard block to incorporate your own specifics).

The pricing of the Huntsman MTM is egregiously close to some other SR bespoke prices...but I find the Hunstman shape to be very distinctive and if there was a high level of fit flexibility on the MTM program....well, I would at least think about it.

what do you think?

thanks.

[Bishop of Briggs]

The Huntsman MTM is made by Cheshire Bespoke in Crewe. The standard block was revised by Gordon Alsleben when he became Head Cutter. You can choose the old block, with more open quarters, if you prefer. The latter is closer to the classic Huntsman look. It ought to be possible to accommodate most of your requirements. There is a special MTM offer on some cloths at the moment. Prices start at around £1650 for a two piece suit.

You are correct to comment that you can get full bespoke for the same price as Huntsman MTM which normally starts around £2500. Richard Anderson, who was at Huntsman, offers bespoke at around Huntsman's usual MTM prices.

A good cutter ought to be able to offer a "Huntsman" one button coat with open quarters and natural shoulders. If price is an issue, you ought to consider other Savile Row houses - Henry Poole, Davies & Son, Dege & Skinner, Fallan & Harvey. The LL certified artisans (e.g. Des Merrion, Josh Byrne) are certainly capable and charge the same or less than Huntsman MTM. Des's prices start at £1700 for bespoke. John Davies of Tobias Davies (formerly on the Row) charges around £1500 - £1600 for a two piece.

The real issue is whether you want to pay the considerable premium for the Huntsman brand.

[Frog in Suit]

Add to those Meyer & Mortimer, 6 Sackville street, at around £ 2,200/2,300 for a two-piece suit and around £ 2,600 for a three-piece suit, including VAT. Full bespoke of course. They are members of the Savile Row Bespoke group.

Frog in Suit

[alebrady01]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your replies.

Bishop, you bring up another item that I was hoping to get thoughts on. Assuming I conclude that I am unwilling to pay the premium, who do we think would have the highest probability of executing a hacking/equestrian shaped suit, similar to Huntsman.

I had thought of starting with the 'military' tailors (i.e. Dege or Welsh & Jeffries) but am a little uncertain if the 'roundish' nature of the military style that I often see would translate well into this type of project.

I also then thought Poole would be a good option given their flexibility - however, because they seem to be so flexible I do not know if that actually lowers the probablity of getting what I would like in the end (i.e. risk of misinterpretation, not structured enough, etc.).

As I said, I would prefer not to pay the premium the only reason I was even considering it was uncertainty of being able to conclusively get that type of cut elsewhere. I would be certainly happy to be proven incorrect!

Any further thoughts?

[Frog in Suit]

Why not call around and ask? State exactly what you want and ask for a price. If they are vague or not interested, then eliminate.

Price: I think anyone or almost anyone will be less expensive than Huntsman. I am not sure whether the other prices quoted in the thread include VAT or not.

Frog in Suit

[storeynicholas]

[quote="alebrady01"]Gentlemen,

Thank you for your replies.


I had thought of starting with the 'military' tailors (i.e. Dege or Welsh & Jeffries) but am a little uncertain if the 'roundish' nature of the military style that I often see would translate well into this type of project.

Do you think that the military structure produces a 'roundish' result - to my eye it is the opposite - I mean, for example, that on some of my 'more rigid' suits, it is possible to see not just in a glass but also in the shadow cast by the sun, that there is a decided drop on my left shoulder. I hasten to add that it doesn't amount to an infirmity but it is there - whereas with softer coats, it is smoothed out.
NJS

[Bishop of Briggs]

The leading alternative to Huntsman is Richard Anderson. Anderson was IIRC Head Cutter at Huntsman before setting up his own business with Brian Lishak, his colleague at Huntsman.

[alebrady01]

I was actually quite surprised to find out how much of a premium even RA charges over most of the other savile row houses...it is almost as if the equestrian look is more difficult/costly to execute, hence higher prices all around for those who specialize in it!

[Bishop of Briggs]

The last time I checked, RA was a bit more expensive than Henry Poole and Dege & Skinner. Welsh & Jeffries was the cheapest at £2200. Malcolm Plews has an excellent reputation.

Another option would be to try Lutwyche Bespoke as Tony Lutwyche owns Cheshire Bespoke. Cheshire Bespoke makes MTM and RTW for both Huntsman and Richard Anderson. Lutwyche will be cheaper than the Row and his firm can certainly offer the cut that you want.

[Bishop of Briggs]

Another option has sprung to mind. Terry Haste, the former Head Cutter at Huntsman, operates from Sussex. A poster on AAAC gave his mobile as 07767-642711. The thread is here - http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/foru ... hp?t=63194.

[Frog in Suit]

I was actually quite surprised to find out how much of a premium even RA charges over most of the other savile row houses...it is almost as if the equestrian look is more difficult/costly to execute, hence higher prices all around for those who specialize in it!

I am not certain but very much doubt that SR firms set their prices according to their preferred "house style".

I think overheads are the main factor (rents on Savile Row itself being higher than on neigbouring street, rents outside London being much lower, how large is the permanent payroll, etc...). Then there is the comparative pricing decision which the firm has to make: higher prices may give it an aura of exclusivity, the firm's particular market segment may be price-inelastic (Russian billionaires), etc...

In passing, I would venture to suggest that each style's practitioner (and a professional tailor might want to comment on that point as this is really only a guess on my part) is likely to claim that his style is technically more demanding than others. This argument might sway some people on this forum ....

Frog in Suit

[Bishop of Briggs]

Our esteemed French colleague is correct. Overheads are a major influence on price. Not having a shop enables the A&S alumni and other ex-Row tailors to charge less than their former employers. There is also a premium to be paid for the Savile Row brand, i.e. the prestige of wearing a suit made by a well known house such as Henry Poole, Huntsman or Gieves & Hawkes.

More and more Savile Row firms are turning to RTW and MTM to increase cash-flow and cover overheads. Provided standards are maintained, I have no problem with that. However, I am not impressed by the quality and value offered by Kilgour, Richard James or Ozwald Boateng.

I recall reading that only 20% of Savile Row suits are made for British customers. America (mainly Wall Street bankers and lawyers) is the biggest market and Europe is next. The big question is whether large premises on the Row are needed if most orders are taken on visits to other countries. For me, a Savile Row suit should be cut and sewn on the firm's premises.

[Scot]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your replies.

Bishop, you bring up another item that I was hoping to get thoughts on. Assuming I conclude that I am unwilling to pay the premium, who do we think would have the highest probability of executing a hacking/equestrian shaped suit, similar to Huntsman.

I had thought of starting with the 'military' tailors (i.e. Dege or Welsh & Jeffries) but am a little uncertain if the 'roundish' nature of the military style that I often see would translate well into this type of project.

I also then thought Poole would be a good option given their flexibility - however, because they seem to be so flexible I do not know if that actually lowers the probablity of getting what I would like in the end (i.e. risk of misinterpretation, not structured enough, etc.).

As I said, I would prefer not to pay the premium the only reason I was even considering it was uncertainty of being able to conclusively get that type of cut elsewhere. I would be certainly happy to be proven incorrect!

Any further thoughts?

I invested in a Huntsman MTM blazer earlier this year and am pleased with the outcome. I tried on a RTW but the fit was not quite right and there were other details I was not happy with. If you go down this route I would suggest firstly trying on a RTW coat. This will allow you to see how close you are to the standard block. If pretty close MTM might be satisfactory. You will then have all the usual choices available - cloth, lining, buttons etc. Button holes seem to be hand stitched (?) Mine came out about 2k in the end and it is certainly true that bespoke can be acquired elsewhere for much the same price.

I am sure that Malcolm Plews at W&J could cut almost anything you wished. I am just awaiting delivery of a suit from W&J and my impressions thus far have been good.

[alebrady01]

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for the thoughtful responses.

I should have been more clear in my post - I do not actually think that house style does, indeed, have anything to do with the pricing just that I found it interesting that the equestrian shape tailors tended toward the high side of the spectrum (Huntsman I could understand given the history, though it still is substantially more than other houses with equal if not higher levels of pedigree but RA?).

I should also have been more clear that I reside in the U.S. I most likely would be able to get over to London occasionally over the course of the next 6-12 months for fittings but would ideally like to find someone that visits the U.S. so that I could avail myself of their trips here also (i.e. in combination with my trips to the UK and their trips to the US complete the measuring, fitting, adjustments, etc.). Additionally, the US trips provide a good guarantee if for some reason I am not able to get over to London in a timely manner).

I am assuming that Mr. Lutwyche and Mr. Haste do not make trip to the States?

I hear more and more good things about Welsh & Jeffries. It will certainly be one of my stops when I head over to the UK in about a week. I am interested to hear how comfortable he would feel in making such a sillhoutte. My only concern was whether it would be too military rather than hacking.

I am actually thinking, perhaps, of trying a very basic/versatile odd jacket first (whoever I decide to try this project with). In addition to being in desperate need for a very long time for such an article, I think this would allow me to get a good sense of the house's ability to execute something along the shape I had in mind.

Any further thoughts - thank you again for you kind advice.

[Bishop of Briggs]

Any good tailor should be able to cut an equestrian style coat. Malcolm Plews has an excellent reputation and should be able to cut anything you want. Tom Mahon says he cuts very well for women too. The W&J web site says that they travel to the states regularly. I believe that it is James Cottrell who travels. The Welsh & Jeffries shop is small and that probably helps keep the overheads and prices down.

I believe that you are correct in thinking that Tony Lutwyche and Terry Haste do not travel to the States. It would, however, be worth meeting Lutwyche when you visit London, especially if you are considering MTM rather than bespoke. Dege & Skinner's website focuses on the firm's riding jackets and hunt coats so they should be able to make what you want too.

Starting with a sports coat seems logical. You would minimise your financial risk. Good hunting!