Ties - T&A??

[Manfield]

A former favourite tie of mine was a T&A lace, spotted but very similar to the one you linked to. I personally rate T&A very highly, up there with Charvet in my collection, preferring as I do, a thicker four in hand knot.

Unfortunately I found the lace tie didn't last with the surface silk pulling and bobbling although I suspect this to be a failing of lace silk ties as a breed rather than of the T&A example in particular.

Matt

[madz]

Thanks,

I really need to visit and take a look myself. I'm trying to arrange a visit shortly so I can visit the mentioned shops.

[dopey]

I ordered one bespoke tie from Dege. Price was right, the silk is lovely, and they got the dimensions OK. But the lining was too thin, and the resulting knot is flimsy-looking. But you might prefer different knots or different looks.

How did you measure the delivery time - quarters, years, decades?

Came with my last shirts.

In less than one year. Obviously, you're being singled out.

No doubt. Obviously, I did something to deserve this treatment.

[Concordia]

I hope you've learned your lesson, young man.

[David Hober]

For what its worth, T&A grenadines are way better than Sam Hober. Still better ones are available at Domenico Spano at Saks.

Dear Smoothjazzone,

I am passionate about customer service and the quality of our ties so your recent post about our grenadines quality compared to T&A caught me by surprise. As we have never had a comment like that before that I am aware of - so I am very grateful for your comments.

I assume that you have ordered one of our grenadines and found something to be lacking.

If you would be so kind as to email me your name and what you would like to see improved I would greatly appreciate it. I will be happy to call you to discuss your tie and of course it will be my pleasure to remake the tie for you at no charge if you need changes made so that your tie is perfect.

As a point of reference we use Fermo Fossati grenadine silk which is a small artisanal weaver in Italy and as far as I know is the finest in the world. Our wool interlinings are 100% combed wool which we dye by hand depending on the grenadine silk color.

We cut by hand the wool interlining and the silk. Which is then carefully folded and sewn by hand.

Each tie is bespoke so you can have the length, width, shape, weight, construction etc of your choice.

We make our ties very slowly and carefully check and recheck each tie as we make it. All our ties are made in our workshop and we put our heart and name on each tie, which is why we care so much about our quality and I am taking the time to PM you and make this post.

I am very much looking forward to your comments on how we can improve our grenadines

Regards, (and smiling - I am very easy-going )

David Hober

[smoothjazzone]

Hi David:

I get the bespoke ties at T&A -- similar construction to their basic ties but you can pick the shape, width, linings, etc. as with your offerings. As a result my T&A ties and SH ties are in essence the same shape and width. There are three points I would make:

1. The colors of the T&A grenadines are much more vibrant and alive than the SH ties which have a much more matt/muted look -- call it personal preference, I much prefer the former

2. The T&A linings are very lofty which makes for a softer knot and look as compared the SH ones -- which tie and look very much like a regular tie. The former seems to be a much better match for a grenadine knit.

3. The T&A ties are very well stitched with some amount of "fullness" which again imparts a better three dimensional look for a knit. SH construction and stitching is very good as well. One big area of difference, however, is that the off-white lining shows through the SH grenadines whereas in the T&A ties it does not. Whether this is due to the lining color chosen, the type and thickness of the knit or some other reason -- I cannot say -- but I much prefer the T&A's in this regard.

All told, once tied -- the T&A ties have a much better look that better conforms to a knit tie than the comparable SH ones.

David -- I admire your products and your dedication to customer service and have as such ordered many ties from you (including the wonderful Atkinson twills) and plan to continue to do so in the future.

Hopefully, these comments are helpful and I will PM you my telephone number if you would like to discuss more.

Best regards.

For what its worth, T&A grenadines are way better than Sam Hober. Still better ones are available at Domenico Spano at Saks.

Dear Smoothjazzone,

I am passionate about customer service and the quality of our ties so your recent post about our grenadines quality compared to T&A caught me by surprise. As we have never had a comment like that before that I am aware of - so I am very grateful for your comments.

[David Hober]

Hi Smoothjazzone,

Thank you very much for your thoughtful response. We have made many improvements based on client feedback - we do more than listen I often spend hours and hours pondering comments.

This morning a gentlemen emailed me asking for a much more detailed color system and a way of explaining textures. We have received similar requests in the past and when time allows later this year I will work on redoing our website.

Please do email me so that I can check the color of your silk and your interlining etc. I will not rest until you are very happy. Although if we do not have just the color that you want that will be a tough one indeed...

"1. The colors of the T&A grenadines are much more vibrant and alive than the SH ties which have a much more matt/muted look -- call it personal preference, I much prefer the former"

Preferences are always important we have close to 3 dozen grenadine colors which may be the biggest regularly stocked selection in the world? (always hard to say with these matters)....

I took a quick look at The T&A site and their grenadine silk seemed to be the same as ours but it is difficult to say from a small internet photo.

"2. The T&A linings are very lofty which makes for a softer knot and look as compared the SH ones -- which tie and look very much like a regular tie. The former seems to be a much better match for a grenadine kn[/i]it."

Although grenadines look similar to knits they are woven not knitted so I wonder now if perhaps the T&A grenadine silk is something different?

Typically lofty interlinings are cotton or cotton mixes. We tend to use a heavy combed pure wool as most gentlemen prefer the look and over time and in different weather conditions wool tends to perform better.

But again interlinings are a personal preference and in England they very often do a layer of wool and a layer of cotton. We generally do not do this with grenadine silk as it tends to make the knot too big. With that said if a client has patience we are happy to experiment until he is happy.

"3. The T&A ties are very well stitched with some amount of "fullness" which again imparts a better three dimensional look for a knit. SH construction and stitching is very good as well. One big area of difference, however, is that the off-white lining shows through the SH grenadines whereas in the T&A ties it does not. Whether this is due to the lining color chosen, the type and thickness of the knit or some other reason -- I cannot say -- but I much prefer the T&A's in this regard. "[/i]

I am wondering if you ordered your grenadine some time ago as during the first few weeks or so of making grenadines we did not dye the interlinings until Will requested that we take his tie apart, dye the interlining and remake the tie. We did so and the results were very nice, so going forward we added dyeing when it has a nice look. Will also was kind enough to suggest that we start working with grenadines and Atkinsons Irish poplins.

"All told, once tied -- the T&A ties have a much better look that better conforms to a knit tie than the comparable SH ones. "

Our clients are always correct, although if I may be allowed to gently say that it seems that your preferences are what make T&A your grenadine of choice more than the ties being better - although the interlining color on your SH tie needs to be looked into as soon as you contact me.

"David -- I admire your products and your dedication to customer service and have as such ordered many ties from you (including the wonderful Atkinson poplins) and plan to continue to do so in the future."

"Hopefully, these comments are helpful and I will PM you my telephone number if you would like to discuss more."

Very helpful - please contact me by email.

Thank you,

David

[edhayes]

hober, hober, hober. they are terrific ties, the service is great and the prices are very fair.

[smoothjazzone]

Thanks David -- will be in touch.

Best regards.

[alden]

I would compliment the participants in this discussion on its quality and efficiency. There is no reason to mention civility as that is taken for granted here.

Preferences are always important

The necktie is the centerpiece of dress. The knot is the heart of the tie and there are as many ways to craft one as there are elegant men. So David, preferences are a given, a fundamental. If every silk was knotted in the same way or according to the dictates of self proclaimed gurus, ours would be an even sadder sartorial world. A man can hide himself behind a mask or poker face. But the sense he has of himself is seen in his knot. That’s probably why men avoid wearing ties these days. Maybe you can show us a picture of what your knot looks like or the ideal you aspire to? Most of us are on record here.

Brummel would throw away any tie that did not knot the way he liked after the first try. Imagine how hard he must have been on the manufacturers of his time.
You have earned the luxury of receiving very cogent and sensible input that you assuredly will put to good use. I have never seen or felt a Sam Hober tie, but from your open and willing attitude, more so than from your responses, I can deduce the quality of your products.

Yours is an inherently difficult task: you must make a product that is as soft as modeling clay in the hands of an expert and yet one that resists the intemperate treatment of time and splashes of tomato sauce. Not only this but you must account for preferences, taste and cultural differences as well. The American with his overtly dimpled tie, the Englishman with the hefty knot or the Italian ‘s penchant for the soft, natural and uncluttered must find their own in your works. I am glad there are people like Charvet, T&A and yourself who take up the challenge. Living on this extremity of the pond I have always found my heart’s desires at the two former establishments, but I must give one of your grenadines a try.

Cheers

M Alden

[David Hober]

hober, hober, hober. they are terrific ties, the service is great and the prices are very fair.

Ed,

Thank you for your kind words


Michael,

You understand our challenges quite well.

My personal interests center around fabrics more than knots. I tend to start with a standard four-in-hand and a nice small dimple or sometimes no dimple at all. I do not want my knot to be take away from the necktie's silk (or other fabric).

We tend to work with many different fabrics which adds to the challenge.

As an example when we started working with Atkinsons Irish poplin we were told that lined six-folds and pocket squares were somewhere in between not practical and not possible to be made. After experimenting we were able to make lined six-folds and pocket squares with Atkinsons Irish poplins. To my knowledge we are the only makers in the world who do this.

When we need to create or recreate a new silk I like to look at the classic mills. As I mentioned to you on the telephone a while back Lyon is on my list to explore. The old jacquard silk looms that are still in operation fascinate me. Noina and I really enjoyed wandering through the city (pre small kids) and looking at the old workshops which are still active although they mostly do museum and palace curtain and upholstery work nowadays.

Back to interlinings while we currently have woven for us in Italy a number of different weights and types for different effects I am now considering weaving in house our wool interlinings. We would buy the wool yarn in New Zealand or Australia and weave it by hand here in Thailand.

By doing the weaving ourselves by hand we can control the texture and springiness and do short runs so that we can have more varieties on hand. We already weave our Thai silk so it would be easy for us to work with the wool.

Next, we would experiment with different wool yarns mixed with silk for neckties.

We have many projects underway and I will write more as they progress....

[Bishop of Briggs]

I bought several T&A ties, including three lace ones, in this year's January sales. The quality is excellent and make a great four-in-hand. They are better, in my opinion, than most of my HIlditch & Key's ties (made IIRC by Holliday and Brown).

T&A have raised their RTW shirt prices substantially in recent weeks. I hope that that tie prices do not follow.

[Cufflink79]

What is the current price for a T&A RTW shirt?

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[madz]

Thanks for the replies and some interesting reading above.

I managed to make a trip to London on Saturday and purchased a couple of T&A one Emma Willis and a N&L. Also a couple of very nice pocket squares from Budd.

I very nearly purchased a pair of EG shoes but a call from the wife telling me she had found a new outfit for a friends wedding soon put a stop to that!! Maybe next time.

While I was walking down SR I popped into D&S to take a look at some neckwear. Although I was in my casual (jeans, trainers etc) I was annoyed that as soon as the sales lad spotted me and I told him I was looking for ties the first words out of his mouth "how much..." then "they are £35" "those £55" or something...

I give him some advice and quickly left the shop!!

I'm Still annoyed, maybe I should have walked in with my bespoke suit to get a better reaction!! Some people have a lot to learn!!

Ok rant over. Very please with ties and thanks again for your help.

[rjman]

I bought several T&A ties, including three lace ones, in this year's January sales. The quality is excellent and make a great four-in-hand. They are better, in my opinion, than most of my HIlditch & Key's ties (made IIRC by Holliday and Brown).

H&K's ties haven't been made by Holliday & Brown in donkey's years. They were made by John Comfort (machine made), and I'm not sure who made/makes the handmade ones. Still, a pretty good tie.