White tie

[Edward]

I have a couple of questions about white tie which I hope that the knowledgeable people of this forum may be able to help me with.

I am, for the first time attending a white tie ball next month and I would really like to be properly turned out. I am very fortunate that I have the tailcoat, waistcoat and trousers already in my possession having had them handed down as family heirlooms. The shirt however is missing- I already own a detachable wing collar and white bow tie but I would really like to match them up with a proper shirt. Here is where I run into problems as I have not really got much idea what I am looking for.

1. Can anyone advise me on where I can find a stiff fronted shirt in London or Edinburgh or indeed on eBay? I am not, in principle adverse to buying a second hand shirt (nor indeed would I especially mind renting one).

2. Can anyone also give me any pointers as to what I need to look for in a shirt? What goes for studs on a white tie shirt?

3. Can I wear my black studs which I normally wear for black tie?

4. Wear can I get the shirt laundered- or do I need to do it myself!

Many thanks in advance for your help,
Edward

[AnthonyJordan]

Budd sells such shirts, as does, I think, Harvie & Hudson. eBay often has them, although you might wish to have it laundered before wearing, as the starch tends to yellow with age. Such shirts come either with pique fronts and (single) cuffs or (more rarely) with plain stiff fronts and cuffs. I marginally prefer the latter, but they are hard to find. Ideally, I would suggest that the studs should be gold or white; my favourite vintage studs have small paste stones in a (rolled) gold setting, and are worn with bachelor's buttons of similar pattern, viz:



I also rather like these alternatives (I'm wearing the links today):



As to laundering, Barker's and Blossom and Browne are both quite well known for this service, as is Jeeves of Belgravia; I haven't seen an unequivocal recommendation for any, however. I tend to do my shirts, waistcoats and ties myself, on the rare occasions that I need them. I've given up on collars, but am still looking for a laundry that does a good job without charging practically the price of the collar for the service.

Anthony.

[RWS]

. . . . 3. Can I wear my black studs which I normally wear for black tie?. . . .

Of course; but you shouldn't. As my fellow Lounger has pointed out, the stud buttons should be of pearl, mother-of-pearl, white gold, platinum: in short, white, just as the cufflinks (which needn't match the stud buttons for either shirt or waistcoat) should be.

If you can't find stud buttons for your shirt, simply buy nice mother-of-pearl buttons and sew the one or two you'll need to a single length of cotton (or linen) tape. Well-shanked, those one or two buttons will make a passable substitute for stud buttons. (I suppose that the same could be done, with larger mother-of-pearl buttons, for a buttonless waistcoat.)

[mek]

I buy my shirts and collars from Budd and I am very happy with their products. Since I wear white tie 20 to 25 times a year I tend to need a new shirt every now and then and a few collars each year. Over the years I have used two other shirt makers bud for the past ten years I have been using Budd and have no complains.

[Edward]

Thank you all for your kind advice, AnthonyJordan I think your studs are very smart- especially the second set. I would love to know how you go about laundering your shorts and waistcoats.

For the sake of completeness I would just like to add that I have found a shirt at Ede and Ravesncroft in Edinburgh. It is obviously brand new and whilst the front feels quite stiff I am wondering whether I sould give it a run through the wash before I wear it to get it really sharp. Does anyone have any advice on this?

Thank you for the tips on stud subsititutes, I may have to resort to some sewing but I am keeping my eyes peeled for a decent vintage mother of pear links and stud set.

[RWS]

. . . . I am keeping my eyes peeled for a decent vintage mother of pear links and stud set.

I've just looked at eBay: several acceptable sets of stud buttons, though they mightn't reach you in time.

[RWS]

I buy my shirts and collars from Budd and I am very happy with their products. Since I wear white tie 20 to 25 times a year I tend to need a new shirt every now and then and a few collars each year. Over the years I have used two other shirt makers bud for the past ten years I have been using Budd and have no complains.

Mek, I've had Budd make shirts for me for some time now and have always been pleased; but all have been for work or the country, none for evening wear. Do Budd make the collars to measure as well, or only the tunic of the evening shirt? Have all made for you been of cotton, or have you tried linen or a linen-cotton mix? And have you tried a smooth, "boiled" front, or always a pique?

I'd be grateful for and much interested in whatever you might tell us.

[Rudolf]

Dear Edward,
I indeed have quite a collection of white tie stud sets, mostly from the U.S. (Kementz and Larter); I also own several sets of pearl studs from England (1910/1930s), which in fact are always without the cufflinks (those should be plain gold or mother of pearl chainlinks). Usually these sets have two, some do have three front studs. I also have a few sets with detachable vest buttons as well - these are quite rare.
Please note that most of my sets are not made from precious metal like platinum or white gold.
I am happy to help you, if you are interested.
Needless to say that I am not a dealer or an ebay seller of these items.
You are very welcome to contact me via the londonlounge message system.
Rudolf

[Rudolf]

RWS, I had my first Budd dress shirt (with detachable collar) ordered at the age of 18 and I still wear it occasionally now that I am 40.
It was a piquee front, the detachable collar ready made. At that stage, I bought the shirt off the peg with an extra long sleeve.
I really would be interested to know if mek gets them from their bespoke range.
I once tried Budd bespoke for regular shirts (Edwardian high collar) and they offered me to make the shirt with a detachable collar (which I did not choose at that time), so I presume they produce detachables themselves.

[AnthonyJordan]

Yes, I understand that Budd will make collars to your own specification, although I understand the minimum order is six in the same style (possibly even twelve.) I've only ever heard it done with day collars, however.

For my waistcoats I tend to prefer simple detachable Mother of Pearl buttons with a cross pattern. This has the benefit of complementing practically anything else one could choose to wear. I've never had the privilege of owning one of the sets, although some of the enamel examples are very fine.

As to starching shirts,waistcoats and ties, I don't really have any great knowledge to impart, I simply wash them, soak them in a starch solution (usually made with Robin or Boots own brand powdered starch and water) and then iron them through a handkerchief until just damp; the effect is passable, although I can't prevent the starch "bleeding" into the shirt body either side of the bib and the sleeves above the cuffs. I can't say that this worries me, though. Collars are another matter, as the difficulty is to impart sufficient curl without disturbing the adhesion of the various parts of the collar and thus impairing the smoothness/stiffness. Ironing them until just damp and then suspending them, fronts held together by a stud, over a bar near a heat source seems to give one the best chance of a passable result. The biggest danger, I find, is burning the starch, which I used to do with annoying regularity.

[mek]

The white tie shirts from Budd that I have used are rtw with detachable collar that they sell as well. I have not had any white tie shirts specially made for me yet. Shirts from Budd have fitted me very well. All the shirts have had pique front. Regarding shirts in general I have not had any made bespoke for me from Budd, bud can say that my tailor at A&S did recommend them to me for bespoke shirts. For bespoke shirts I have used T&A and various MTM services. This Monday I will receive my first bespoke shirt from Sean O'Flynn which will be interesting to try.

[Valentina Iv]

Dear Gentlemen,

Could you give me advice, where I can buy this buttons for white tie? Which companies make this production in UK?

Thank for any information!


Valentina.

Budd sells such shirts, as does, I think, Harvie & Hudson. eBay often has them, although you might wish to have it laundered before wearing, as the starch tends to yellow with age. Such shirts come either with pique fronts and (single) cuffs or (more rarely) with plain stiff fronts and cuffs. I marginally prefer the latter, but they are hard to find. Ideally, I would suggest that the studs should be gold or white; my favourite vintage studs have small paste stones in a (rolled) gold setting, and are worn with bachelor's buttons of similar pattern, viz:



I also rather like these alternatives (I'm wearing the links today):



As to laundering, Barker's and Blossom and Browne are both quite well known for this service, as is Jeeves of Belgravia; I haven't seen an unequivocal recommendation for any, however. I tend to do my shirts, waistcoats and ties myself, on the rare occasions that I need them. I've given up on collars, but am still looking for a laundry that does a good job without charging practically the price of the collar for the service.

Anthony.

[RWS]

Dear Valentina,

In London, Budd (the shirtmaker) offers a limited and costly assortment of very nice plated stud buttons. In greater New York city (actually in Laurence Harbor, New Jersey, if I remember correctly), the excellent American manufacturing jeweller Larter & Son makes a fair variety of very well-made, solid gold or platinum stud buttons, some jewelled or enamelled.

With all good wishes,

RWS

[storeynicholas]

The Mayfair Laundry is very good and they pick up and deliver (even small amounts). I believe that Budd themselves use them for finishing stiff shirts.
NJS

[storeynicholas]

Here is a photo of a Budd combo.

[img][img]http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55 ... whitew.jpg[/img]