Stroller fabrics: coats and trousers

[HappyStroller]

Sorry, Sator, miscommunication on my side. My intention was not to imply you disagreed with Manton; rather, that I wished to admit Manton had a point though I felt quite the contrary.

I suppose Oxford grey should work, since it is ,according to Manton, even darker than Charcoal grey, which is already pretty near black to most people.

A Stroller complete with black waistcoat for a funeral? That now would be pretty respectful, indeed, but the deceased must be of very high social status; after all, even Ronald Reagan appeared only in a Stroller for his presidential inaugural ceremony.

I find the idea of a grey Stroller very interesting; but it has to be matched with a same cloth pants, and, I don't want folks to mistake it for just an ordinary grey suit, too. Of course I don't mean an Oxford grey Stroller, which should be pretty OK with striped pants.

Sator, Manton does have his point.

I never disagreed one iota with Manton. That is why I added the suggestion of a fialle weave to that of his barathea. Oxford grey is only mentioned as an alternative to those who feel that a black stroller coat would otherwise get too little wear to be worth the expense of acquiring. Otherwise I have not the slightest objection to a black coat in this instance. However, I would disagree with the suggestion that the coat has to be black, unless one is wanting to expressly wear it to a funeral, in which case the waistcoat should also be black.

[SilkCity]

As a bit of a dodge, but not too much compromise on what I like, I've thought that getting a DB suit in a very dark grey herringbone (no pocket flaps or vents) would be a useful entry into this rig. Add supplementary striped trousers and a proper shirt, and we're ready to go. No real sacrifice of utility, as a 12oz herringbone(Dugdale makes some nice ones) could see use in a suit for a whole lot of evenings, and even the odd funeral. While travelling, one could wear the suit and pack the striped trousers.

Now if I only knew where one could go looking like this. Perhaps to keep SilkCity company at the Met, but with two of us dressed this way together people might think we were on the payroll and ask us to fetch something.

Con.
That'd be fun--pm me when the schedule comes out so we coordinate our
matinee selections (I wear a dinner suit to evening perfs)
. I am partial to the bel canto, btw!
And, I'd gladly fetch you something--especially from the bar--for us to toast our
fraternity in the "cloth"!
Best,
SC

[Concordia]

Con.
That'd be fun--pm me when the schedule comes out so we coordinate our
matinee selections (I wear a dinner suit to evening perfs)
. I am partial to the bel canto, btw!
And, I'd gladly fetch you something--especially from the bar--for us to toast our
fraternity in the "cloth"!
Best,
SC

Then we shall have to choose something with two intermissions, so I can rinse and repeat on the refreshments.

[JLibourel]

Manton, any specific reason why a 6x3 DB would not be "on" for a stroller? As I think I mentioned in my post on AAAC, I thought a DB jacket in Oxford gray (doesn't have to be 6x3) could, with two pairs of pants, double as a suit or stroller as the situation demanded, or is that sort of a makeshift compromise that would not be entirely satisfactory in either role?

[Concordia]

My $.02 only, but my limited imagination has trouble conjuring up a 6x3 that doesn't look a little like a pea coat. YMMV.

[yachtie]

Hardly a pea coat, Concordia.

[SilkCity]

Con.
That'd be fun--pm me when the schedule comes out so we coordinate our
matinee selections (I wear a dinner suit to evening perfs)
. I am partial to the bel canto, btw!
And, I'd gladly fetch you something--especially from the bar--for us to toast our
fraternity in the "cloth"!
Best,
SC

Then we shall have to choose something with two intermissions, so I can rinse and repeat on the refreshments.

And if it's the Ring, we'll be positively toasted!
Cheers,
SC

[Concordia]

And if it's the Ring, we'll be positively toasted!

Not nearly enough. But it's worth thinking about.

[Etutee]

Manton, any specific reason why a 6x3 DB would not be "on" for a stroller? As I think I mentioned in my post on AAAC, I thought a DB jacket in Oxford gray (doesn't have to be 6x3) could, with two pairs of pants, double as a suit or stroller as the situation demanded, or is that sort of a makeshift compromise that would not be entirely satisfactory in either role?

JLibourel... while your question is directed towards Manton, allow me (in the meantime) to explain a few things. The most primary reason for avoiding 6x3 dbs as "strollers" is that they were (almost) never observed in the classic era. But despite that.... there is an air of "too-lounge-iness" associated with 6x3's for them to be considered genuine "formal day wear" worthy. That said, all of that was decades ago and with the whole formal day wear thing getting as outdated as prohibition.... there is no reason why you need to be confined to those strict boundaries. If you must get an oxford grey suit in 6x3, I would recommend that you get it in 6x3 rolled to the middle button. So when it is desirable to be worn as a stroller you opt for 6x2 configuration but otherwise you may fully button it up when in lounge-mode.

Observe this picture of Astaire below.



In this above he is wearing a 6x3 with accessories that are quite similar to that of semi-formal day wear. I am sure you will realize that if this jacket was oxford grey with striped or checkered trousers there is not much reason why you cannot picture this for a stroller. But all of that distinction lies in the eyes of the wearer or the observers (in situation where there is no protocol). As I mentioned above, with semi formal day wear almost or completely defunct it is not strictly a matter of what is viewed as a "proper" stroller and whether it will make the cut or no.

But at the same time have a look at this another Astaire picture below. A remarkable mid-grey 3-pc suit with DB vest & 1 button peak lapel jacket.



Now, do the same exercise as above... that is picture this suit & vest also in oxford grey with striped pants. I am sure you will agree that in this case if we were to take the jacket & the vest here (in oxford color) & substitute the formal striped pants... this get-together would be placed above the 6x3 combo.

In my opinion it is foolish these days to order a worsted oxford / black cloth jacket to be used as a "stroller". Unless you are in an absolute need of these articles there are better options than this. The best alternative is as you suggested, to get an oxford grey worsted suit and used its jacket as a stroller. Provided that it is of the somewhat proper cut, which is what we are discussing. If you are just going to order an actual "stroller" by it self then by all means make it special... either with your choice of cloth OR with trimmings (silk).... the former is more recommended over the later unless you are absolutely sure of what you are doing.

So in short my recommendation would be that if you must get a 6x3 to be used as a stroller... get it in 6x3 that can be rolled to 6x2 also. Below is an illustration depicting the model I am referring to. However, you will let go of the ticket pocket.



Another thing which I want to call your attention to is the cut. Call me old-fashioned, narrow minded or whatever... you want to stay as far as possible from the hourglass silhouette depicted in the picture a few posts above (from Dege I guess). Your silhouette should be more of a Y than a 8. Narrow shoulders are bane of mascuilne elegance. It is a small point that many gentlemen today often forget. There is something infinitely more elegant to my eyes in a silhouette where shoulders are more broader than the skirt (but never) exaggerated. Watch the cut in the illustration closely.

hope it helps

regards
etutee

[HappyStroller]

That, ok, Stroller in the image Yachtie provided in his original posting still looks impressive. After examining the image at two times magnification, I believe it's a 4x1 DB. Perhaps that accounts for the two buttons in the upper row seeming to be slighter wider apart than the two of the lower row.

...<snip>...

[yachtie]

Happy Stroller, I'm almost sure it's 4x2 rolled to the bottom button.

Etutee, Great post. I agree that the Dege coat has too much waist supression and really like your 6x3 selection. The wider button stance really helps too ( a fault of the Dege coat IMO)

[JLibourel]

Allow me to convey my thanks for your detailed post as well, Etutee.

Your comments have got me to thinking that a suit that was a cut above the ordinary lounge suit, rather on the the order of the 3-piece peak lapel job that Astaire is shown wearing, would be virtually equally appropriate in any situation were a stroller might be worn while being more versatile and less conspicuous and "eccentric" than a stroller. I think that if I commissioned something similar to what Astaire is wearing, however, I would specify besom rather than flapped pockets.

[HappyStroller]

No, no, no commerce business is to be conducted when you're wearing a formal dress. If you do, I'm afraid someone would have to call the Sartorial Police to knock on your HK SAR door at midnight to invite you for a stay just across the SAR/SEZ border until you have submitted a proper self-criticism confession for abusing the use of such a distinctly Western dress.

...<snip>...
I have sometimes thought, to heck with it, I am going to commission a morning suit and wear it for business lunch or a product launch...

[JLibourel]

No, no, no commerce business is to be conducted when you're wearing a formal dress. If you do, I'm afraid someone would have to call the Sartorial Police to knock on your HK SAR door at midnight to invite you for a stay just across the SAR/SEZ border until you have submitted a proper self-criticism confession for abusing the use of such a distinctly Western dress.

...<snip>...
I have sometimes thought, to heck with it, I am going to commission a morning suit and wear it for business lunch or a product launch...

"No commerce business is to be conducted when you're wearing a formal dress." Me thunk a stroller was semi-formal, not formal.

I am old enough to remember the floorwalkers at Bullock's Wilshire--a great department store in its day--wore strollers. Presumably they were engaged in "commerce business" (which terminology strikes me as a bit redundant).

[Sator]

The most primary reason for avoiding 6x3 dbs as "strollers" is that they were (almost) never observed in the classic era.

Another thing which I want to call your attention to is the cut. Call me old-fashioned, narrow minded or whatever... you want to stay as far as possible from the hourglass silhouette depicted in the picture a few posts above (from Dege I guess).

I am always bemused by the use of the term "classical period" to denote an age which had already seen Cubism and was reading James Joyce.

It is true that DB coats with a stroller are rarely seen in older photos from the Edwardian era. I think this is mainly because the DB lounge coat was regarded as being more informal than a SB with a DB waistcoat.

Call me even more old fashioned but I prefer the hour glass silhouette of nineteenth century tailoring to the modern so-called "drape" which is really a product of the RTW age when an ill fitting coat could be passed off by a salesman saying "why it's meant to be that way Sir - having a little 'drape' is all the rage". Next, bespoke tailors started to copy it too.

In the nineteenth century when the bespoke tailor reigned supreme, such floppiness would have been instantly recognised as the product of inferior workmanship. A common phrase in those days was "where you see a crease, there insert a fish".

I am shameless in preferring that Neo-Classicist ideal of the imacculately fitted, creaseless perfection which proudly displayed the elegance of the human form: