White tie and tails

[chelsea]

I am an occasional wearer of white tie and tails at City Livery functions etc. Hiring is never very satisfactory and I have a personal loathing of backless waistcoats. I have therefore finally bitten the bullet and decided to order a set of evening tails from my tailor.

Is there any advice/ points to watch that members of LL would like to proffer ? I am aware that the waistcoat should not be visible below the coat.

[manton]

http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/vie ... php?t=5526

Can't do any better than that.

[HappyStroller]

As a novice, as far as I can gather, the following are points to be aware of for a White Tie waistcoat:-

A. SB waistcoat:-
1. No lapel; and,
2. 3 buttons or studs; all to be buttoned when waistcoat is worn.

B. DB waistcoat:-
1. Peak lapel (as tailcoat should be peak lapel);
2. 6 buttons or studs in 2 vertical columns of 3 each; all 3 buttons or studs of at least the extreme column to be buttoned when waistcoat is worn.

For both SB and DB waistcoats:-
1. White;
2. Pique cotton;
3. Low-cut (to show bib bosom);
4. The chest area not covered by the waistcoat should be narrow enough so that suspender belts are not revealed;
5. The bottom of the waistcoat should be low enough to keep the pants' waistband hidden from view;
6. An adjustable back buckle-type strap helps the waistcoat to hug the body well and comfortably.

Perhaps some other gentleman can advise on the number of pockets for such waistcoats.

[DD MacDonald]

The SB vest for the tails that I have worn (the times few and then hired) have always had lapels, albeit sans notch or peak and terminating in an almost horizontal line just above the buttons of the waistcoat.

This detail is very much in evidence in the Etutee post as I can see for both the SB and DB waistcoats.

Enjoy your tails and please share the tailoring experience. The few times I've worn white tie I've found it to be the most comfortable suit of clothes, certainly the most elegant.

DDM

[The Doctor]

There should be a hint of waistcoat showing.

[HappyStroller]

Oops, my apologies. Just realized that since the Evening Dress Tailcoat is DB, the waistcoat should be SB. Therefore, my suggestions relating to DB waistcoats should be ignored.

As a novice, as far as I can gather, the following are points to be aware of for a White Tie waistcoat:-
:
B. DB waistcoat:-
1. Peak lapel (as tailcoat should be peak lapel);
2. 6 buttons or studs in 2 vertical columns of 3 each; all 3 buttons or studs of at least the extreme column to be buttoned when waistcoat is worn.

For both SB and DB waistcoats:-
:
Perhaps some other gentleman can advise on the number of pockets for such waistcoats.

[HappyStroller]

For the Evening Dress Tailcoat, the waistcoat would definitely be exposed to view because the DB Tailcoat jacket itself is constructed with a cut that ensures it is never ever buttoned up.

There should be a hint of waistcoat showing.

[TVD]

Be careful, the waistcoat should not show under the bottom of the tailcoat, just between the two breast pieces. As a consequence, trousers for evening dress have to be cut with considerably higher rise and waistline than is common practice today.

Etutees post is giving all the details, it merits reading carefully.

[HappyStroller]

Thanks, DD, for pointing out the presence of lapels on an Evening Dress waistcoat. I believe you're referring to our great etutee's Featured Article 'Nothing But ... Tails'.

Your point made me wonder why this was the case contrary to the rule that only a SB waistcoat without lapel should go with a DB jacket.

Bothering to look at an actual (probably) Vintage 1930s Evening Dress waistcoat, which had a pair of lapels that fitted your description, one can observe:-

Firstly, unlike waistcoats for normal jackets, whose lapels, if any, can be quite clearly seen as lapels even with the jackets buttoned up as intended, the lapels, other than the part with the bottom front part of the waistcoat itself (usually ending with sharp points), of Evening Dress waistcoats are virtually the only part of the waistcoat that is on display.

Secondly, the lapels have no notches or peaks near the top. They resemble shawl lapels, but are more in the form of very long triangles with a wider base. As you described it, the bases of a pair of such lapels form almost a horizonetal line when the waistcoat is buttoned up (or closed with studs).

I came to the conclusion that the purpose of the lapels is to represent the waistcoat itself, and not act as lapels in the usual way. So maybe this is why the rule need not be observed.

The SB vest for the tails that I have worn (the times few and then hired) have always had lapels, albeit sans notch or peak and terminating in an almost horizontal line just above the buttons of the waistcoat.

This detail is very much in evidence in the Etutee post as I can see for both the SB and DB waistcoats.

Enjoy your tails and please share the tailoring experience. The few times I've worn white tie I've found it to be the most comfortable suit of clothes, certainly the most elegant.

DDM