Newbie with a question on black suit

[cordoba]

Good afternoon,
after browsing this forum for a while in great delight i deceided to apply for a regsitration. And here I am May i be so forward and already ask you gentlemen for your opinion? I was given an almost new Brioni suit by the wife of my late uncle. It is a black DB suit (6 button) made of 60 % Mohair and 40 % wool. After some minor adjustments it fits me really nice. Now, i have never been a fan of black suits, but given the fact that i liked my uncle very much and that i appreciate the fit and workmanship of this suit, i would like to wear it. So, what do you think, what would be the right enviroment for such a suit? I figure that not many of you are in favour of black suits, with the exception of black or white tie dresses. Nontheless, i`d be very happy to hear your oppinions.

Thank you in advance

[couch]

Welcome, cordoba.

I think it reflects an admirable sensibility to show such a gracious regard for your uncle and his wife, and for the gift of such a personal and well-made article. My compliments.

The answer to your questions depends much on your own coloring and what you wear the suit with, in my view. A recent Brioni DB in black will likely give a boldly crisp, if not sharp, impression. This would be accentuated if the mohair adds any perceptible sheen to the cloth. So my first goal would be to pair the suit with things that would soften its potentially overbearing impact. I'd avoid white shirts, which could make you look like a confused attempt at 'postmodern' dinner dress. If you have dark hair, and especially if you have a dark complexion, I'd be tempted to wear a lightweight heathered mid-gray to charcoal cashmere turtleneck with this--a true turtleneck, or at least a very high mock. The heathering and the neck height are both important to present a significant area of softer texture and color near the face, and the moderate contrast with the jacket would allow your face and eyes to be the brightest zones of interest. If the suit has any sheen, the knit's matte texture would complement and restrain the suit's surface. If you are light-haired or fair, I'd suggest a heathered pearl, dove, or mid-gray turtleneck.

To break up the large expanse of black, I'd urge a pocket square. I'd avoid white or brilliant colors as too stark a contrast, but rather choose a rich pattern in deep colors that complement your face and eyes--something like a paisley in madder silk with red, brown or blue accents, worn in a softer puff or stuff rather than a TV or tidy-pointed fold.

This is an ensemble I would wear to gallery openings, cocktails parties at academic conferences, dinner at chic but not old-school restaurants, etc. I'd find it hard to wear such a suit for daywear, and certainly not for business, unless I were in the entertainment industry.

Others may be able to suggest successful ensembles employing dress shirt and tie for such a suit, but to me they would pose a significantly greater challenge.

Let us know what you come up with, and how you fare.

[cordoba]

Hello couch,
thank you very much for your thoughts, i very much appreciate it. The suit indeed is a recent one and has some rich sheen to it. But i fear i don`t like turtlecks at all, sorry to say that. In fact i can only imagine this suit with a white shirt, white pocket square and some sort of black/silver tie. I do like the contrast the more i think of it. As i said, i don`t really care for black suits, and i am well aware, that there is i "rule" as for not use black fabric in anything but a white- or black-tie outfit. But it would be shame if this suit woulkd bore itself to death in my closet.
Now that i wrote that i hope MANTON will still let me read his book

[manton]

Of course you can read it, read and enjoy.

Look, you have written that you don't like black suits but that you want to wear this one for other reasons. I guess you have to weigh those competing reasons. I personally would not wear something I aesthetically did not like. The reason I personally don't wear black suits is not because of any rule, but because I don't like them. There is also, for instance, an old rule against wearing suede shoes in summer. I am violating that rule today because I like these shoes and because I think they go well with what I have on.

Since the black suit controversy has never really flared up here, I assume you must have been reading Style Forum a year and a half ago when this issue was explored for the first and basically only time at any length. Please remember that the whole black suit issue really only boiled down to a point of epistemology, that is, whether there has ever existed a tradition that black lounge suits are inappropriate for business day wear. While it is true that I don't like black suits, I would never and have never begrudged anyone their right to wear them.

[cordoba]

Hello manton,
just ordered a copy from amazon now that i know its ok for you . Besides for emotional reasons for wearing this suit i meanwhile like its fit on me very much plus the appearence of it with the above mentioned accesories. So i should correct myself and say I dind´nt like black suits until now.And, yes, you assumed right, i tried to go trough the mammut thread in sf yesterday but somehow it still left me a bit confused. My natural language is german and i am a bit confused by some english terms. Did i get it right, Manton, that there is only a"rule " against wearing a black suit during daytime? But that you can wear a black (lounge) suit, (not a tuxedo/smkoing in german or white tie dress/frack in german) for evening events? If that is so, should the trousers of that (lounge) suit be without a cuff?
I'd be very happy if you could give me a hand on this Manton...

[DFR]

Since the black suit controversy has never really flared up here, I assume you must have been reading Style Forum a year and a half ago when this issue was explored for the first and basically only time at any length. Please remember that the whole black suit issue really only boiled down to a point of epistemology, that is, whether there has ever existed a tradition that black lounge suits are inappropriate for business day wear. While it is true that I don't like black suits, I would never and have never begrudged anyone their right to wear them.

Sound common sense: A black suit can be and is quite suitable for business and indeed informal wear generally. Colour can also be introduced by the shirt or pocket square and looks extremely smart.

If you them, wear them, if not don't - there is however nothing against the principle other than preference and an ill-tempered SF thread some while back.

[jekarwoski]

In fact i can only imagine this suit with a white shirt, white pocket square and some sort of black/silver tie.

Perhaps the LL Charvet tie would find a natural home here?

Since you're not fond of turtlenecks, perhaps Couch's suggestion of light to-mid grays with some texture could work for a dress shirt with some sort of patterned tie. After all they are in the same (non-)color family and other threads here have discussed successful monochromatic looks, with combinations of texture and pattern.

There might be another possibility, and that is to treat the suit as separates. At least black trousers can paired with many odd checked and plaid jackets. The DB black jacket would require more thought, because it would look like a blazer, and most blazers have metal buttons.

[manton]

cordoba:

Black was very common for day wear throughout the second half of the 19th century until around WWI. Around that time, the matching lounge suit began to take its place as the stanard business garb, the frock coat died out, and the morning coat and the stroller becamse strictly formal and ceremonial. They retained their black color, though the gray morning suit was also introduced.

Lounge suits were originally sporting garb and were typically made in lighter colors, tans and browns and lovats and such. When they began to be worn more and more in town, they started to be made in darker colors to project a heightened level of formality. However, black was not part of the equation. There were, I think, several reasons for this, including to distingush them from the clothes they were supplanting, and possibly because the younger lounge suit generation was just sick of somber old black. I suspect it is also true that as more color was introduced into day wear (this brings us to the 20s, the "Jazz Age") black's popularity also faded. It is harder to match black with colors other than white and gray and silver (and perhaps buff) but realitively easy to do so with blues and grays and browns. An exception (though not, I think, a common one) was a black striped suit, as the stripes made the suit easier to accessorize and clearly delineated it from formal garb.

So it is not so much that the practice was "No black suits in the daytime", it was "No black lounge suits at all." I think this is one reason why the solid black suit is, even today, so striking, and often used as symbolic of a daring man, an outsider, an iconoclast, etc. For so long, it was just not done, or done rarely, and done by people purposefully dressing a bit outside the widely accepted mainstream.

As to cuffs, personally, I always get them (except on formal clothes). I am not sure what to recommend to you. The "modernity" of your suit makes it sound to me like it might look best without cuffs. However, I also think that cuffs help balance the businesses and solidity of a DB coat.