MTM as a guide to bespoke

[Wakefield]

Gentlemen

A number of the Savile Row and associated firms offer MTM options.

Is there any merit in trying this option first before going bespoke or are they such different animals that they bear no relation to each other?

Regards

GAH

[TVD]

They may use the same fabrics, the rest of the process and the craftmanship are completely different. MTM is not bespoke.

The exception may be Kilgour's entry level bespoke: these garnments are still bespoke cut and tailored by hand, but outsourced to China and fittings are optional. However, as the number of fittings increases, the cost advantage disappears.

[Wakefield]

TVD

Thank you for your reply.

On re-reading my post I see I have not phrased my question clearly.

Whilst I understand the different feel, appearance and detail in bespoke work as opposed to MTM I wondered whether using a firm's MTM service would give an accurate indication of their bespoke operation in terms of:

Style, overall silhouette and cut
or
The general 'customer experience'

Or are the two processes so far removed that you would (say) receive a MTM suit from Denman and Goddard which looked nothing like their bespoke offering or, perhaps, would deal with a salesman who would treat you differently than a cutter would?

Regards

GAH

[TVD]

My experience with MTM is limited.

Obviously, style and measurements are more flexible with MTM. However, at the end it will remain a (hopefully) better fitting RTW type garnment.

What MTM can never achieve is total flexibility of design (cloth, cut, structure) combined with perfect individual fit. This is achieved through the process of commissioning bespoke clothing. MTM is a sales process (not a bespoke process). MTM does not involve any communication with an artisan.

If you simply wish to appear well dressed (and your body is not singularily shaped), MTM may be an acceptable solution for you. It can never be a replacement or even close approximation to the true bespoke process.

[Wakefield]

TVD

Thank you again.

I already have both MTM and bespoke suits and am aware of the differences in the finished garments.

What I am now looking to do is to use the services of a London tailor rather than the firms in the north of England which I have used to date.

Through research and visits I have narrowed my choices down but am unable to decide on a single firm as my final choice.

I am simply wondering whether going MTM with each of them may enable me to reach this decision as I would be happier (if that is the right way of putting it) being disappointed with a suit costing around £750, and the experience of buying it, than with one costing around £2,500.

Has anyone used both the MTM and bespoke services of a single firm?

Or does anyone have a view on whether this would be a useful exercise, bearing in mind my aims outlined in my previous post?

Regards

GAH

[rjman]

Well, the MTM services of many (Savile Row) firms have almost nothing to do with their bespoke. While you may be expertly measured by the SR firm, MTM is usually then executed by a factory somewhere which generally will not employ the same techniques as bespoke. Many MTM suits offered by these firms are not canvassed. I do not know if you get a fitting, either.

[TVD]

The MTM will not allow you to judge the abilities of the bespoke department.

I suggest you talk to the cutters. Chose the one you are most comfortable with. By the by, most of the houses I would consider do not offer MTM.

[Concordia]

But I think that in some cases, MTM may be a clue to the style of the bespoke service. Huntsman, for example, makes good MTM and it appears to be quite similar to their typical bespoke, fitting quirks aside. I do not know if the same could be said of Gieves. Are there other MTM programs from the SR houses? Apart from Entry Level at Kilgour, which is bespoke with some of the costs sucked out?

[rjman]

Many SR houses offer MTM, even though it may all get churned out of the same factory. Gieves & Hawkes, James & James (i.e. Davies, Adeney Boutroy, Wells, Johns & Pegg, since they're all one entity), Richard Anderson, Benson & Clegg, Richard James, I believe Nortons (out of its arm Souster & Hicks) all come to mind quickly. While these firms may have their own block pattern, it's likely the same block pattern they use for their RTW and in fact is probably a suit made by their RTW maker. So going RTW would give you about the same indication as to any particular house style. You're not likely to get any manufacturing details particular to a certain house's bespoke, just a selection of their cloths. In general, the bespoke wing of a house is completely separate from its RTW and MTM activities. At the most, maybe an alterations tailor would help you with adjusting an RTW suit, but that's about it.

[Mark Seitelman]

MTM can be a good entry point. It was my entry point, and I have crossed back and forth between MTM and bespoke.

Probably the biggest barrier to bespoke is price. Generally, MTM is less expensive although at some vendors the price difference is not great.

I personally have found that bespoke is like a box of chocolates. You'll never know what you find. In other words, there is good, the bad, and the middle ground. Some bespoke tailors do not get it right until they make a few suits for you. Some get it right immediately. Some makers' products are consistently excellent, and others are an adventure each and every garement. Sometimes the relationship doesn't click.

The same holds for MTM.

I would think that a MTM suit fitted by a bespoke tailoring establishment will be excellent and that a Savile Row shop will not sell a substandard suit. E.g., Len Logsdail offers a MTM alternative, but you are being fitted by a master tailor who knows how to write the cutting instructions to the factory. He also knows how to fit and finish the suit in his shop.

Therefore, keep asking questions, get some recommendations, and be willing to experiement.

Good luck.

[Richard3]

I personally have found that bespoke is like a box of chocolates. You'll never know what you find.

Well, after all the world will never be the same once you've seen it through the eyes of Forrest Gump.