Jermyn St the peking order of shirtmakers

[tortured-sole]

James, fair enough, as it is not my intention to belittle anyone's wardrobe, and I have myself owned quite a few Tyrwhitt shirts in the past. It is just that I have now tried many others, now being geographically in a position to do so, and I would not want to see anyone waste their, like mine, hard earned money.

[JamesT1]

No harm done, I would rather get some advice on these matters from someone in your position who has tried several brands than guess and waste money.

James

[AlexanderKabbaz]

Any chance we could get back to the topic instead of argueing over minor points, no matter how interesting they are to some parties?

I believe I can speak for the others when I say that:

a] We are not arguing. We are discussing agenda we consider important.

b] Most of the gentlemen on this board are very interested in minor points. If we weren't, we could easily migrate to one of the more mainstream fora which never get past the major points.

c] You might find yourself somewhat better educated if you would delve a bit into the minor points rather than cavalierly selecting which expletive best describes a certain maker.

[Andre Yew]

Re. Ascot Chang shirts

Perhaps we should start a new thread?

I've had a few AC shirts since about 1999 or 2000, and they've been commercially laundered until very recently, and have survived none the worse for wear, which makes them very durable. Contrast this to Borrelli and Finamore which seem to fall apart if you look at them funny.

Stylistically, they're a bit plain. For example, they have no gauntlet buttons, aren't very fitted, though they are far from blousy, have relatively low armholes, relatively plain and ugly buttons, and unshanked buttons. Collar selection isn't great for long-necked people, but I've never asked if they could do a custom collar for me. Sizing on my initial batch of shirts was good, except for collar sizing which could be slightly larger, and sleeve lengths which could be slightly longer. The cuffs could be a bit tighter as well. I believe the entire shirt is machine-sewn. They do have some nice cloths, and got the shirts to me in about 4-6 weeks including shipping from Hong Kong. They strike me as a well-run, efficient, but stylistically typical Hong Kong shop. They produce a solid product with most of the right details that last a long time for a decent price, and I think you could far worse. I'd call them MTM rather than custom. I would consider them very seriously in a town without a real shirtmaker, ie. a person of good reputation who does the measurement and cutting.

They supposedly have a new line of handsewn shirts, but I don't know anything about them.

--Andre

[Cantabrigian]

TS,

As an idle matter of fact, this thread is about Jermyn Street bespoke shirtmakers. Thus your profanity-laced review of ready-to-wear shirtmakers is, technically, off-topic.

As another simple matter of fact, I did start a separate thread on house styles and shirtmakers.

In the course of talking about bespoke shirtmakers, Gruto made the suggestion that due to their house style, some makers would have trouble making a very well-fitting shirt. For me, that relates far more closely to the topic of this thread than does a critique of ready-to-wear shirtmakers.

I think that one of the great things about the LL is that more minute and technical points are discussed. There are several other forums where things are discussed more broadly and they are both interesting and useful. This board has a slightly different purpose and I am grateful for it.

[AlexanderKabbaz]

Lest the gentlemen members of the Lounge were to perceive a lack of response on my part to indicate a change in my admittedly 'feisty' persona, don't.

I must say that I am quite surprised to find expletive and ad hom response replacing detailed description and dignified debate on, of all places, The London Lounge. You'll pardon me if I choose not to partake. This is exactly what I came here to avoid.

[E. Tage Larsen]

“I think that one of the great things about the LL is that more minute and technical points are discussed.” – Cantabrigian.

Yes, I couldn’t agree more. Might I also add that it's rewarding that The Lounge often exhibits itself as a polite and conscientious forum.

[RWS]

TS appears to have misjudged the tenor of the Lounge and the purposes of its frequent posters. I know little about the finer points of clothing but learn much from the knowledgeable postings of many here; I am neither obsequious nor fawning in typing that simple truth, and I am irked by insistent argument against detailled postings -- regardless of whether those postings wander from main topics into by-ways, as most interesting conversations tend to do.

Vulgarity is pointless and offensive; it is not informative or succinct criticism. The absurd prevalence of vulgarity online is one reason why many of us here simply do not read or write elsewhere. Its introduction here is wrong.

If TS believes he can post only either scatological phrases or "lengthy and frankly boring monologues", perhaps he should content himself with simply reading what others post, skipping what does not interest him.

[Ray]

I've been fortunate to have had my shirts made bespoke by many of the above named since the late eighties. If nothing else the last seventeen years has taught me a number of lessons.

You need to be 100% clear about how you want your shirt. Cloth, Cut, Cuffs and Collars do you want them detachable? Pockets, one , two or none? and for goodness sake if your unhappy with the buttons ask if there's an alternative or as i have done supply them yourself. Don't start thinking about this in the shop. Make a list and work through it when you get their.

In my experience if you work at getting the above correct the finished articles are quite simiar regardless where you have them made. So it becomes more of a decision about where you feel at home. I assure if you take the time to visit you will experience a connection with one of them. But you'll also realise that a million years and the same number of pounds will make you nothing but business to some. I must add that for the past Eight years Harvie and Hudson has been my choice. We have worked to achieve a product which I am still exited to receive through the post Eight years on and those fantastis stripes feed the mid life crisis impeccably.

Most importanly, do you need bespoke? I do (five feet eight, eighteen inch neck..damm!)
but i have some friends that OTR shirts fit perfectly, in fact the fit could not be bettered if they where bespoke. New and lingwood or Harvie and Hudson for £70. now there's a bargain!

Ray

[Gruto]

You need to be 100% clear about how you want your shirt.

Ray, I think you need to be clear about what the shirtmaker can deliver. H&H, H&K etc. make Jermyn Street shirts, not slim Italian shirts with handstiching.

What is your experience with H&H's ability/will to pattern matching?

[Ray]

Hi Gruto

Yes I think your probably right, but hey you don't go to a Jaguar showroom to buy a Merc. If you shop in Jermyn street you are going to be getting a very classic Brittish style shirt. I have always found H&H to be very accomadating. I think we need to remember these people are working for us, we tell them what we want and hopefully
they deliver. Hence the importance of knowing what you want and being clear in your requirements.

I think this also touches on house styles, It is ridiculas to say this does'nt exist of course it does, every house has it's style and whats wrong with that. You simply choose the one you like. The difficulty is getting them to do something that falls outside of that style. I have had many a disagreement with H&H regarding cut, they will moan and tell you "That wont be quite wright Sir" You just have to say "Well thats the way I want it"
they simply roll their eyes to the ceiling and say OK. This is the charm of bespoke clothing and how relationships are built.

Ray

[Mr JRM]

What other bespoke shirtmakers are left in England that are better standard than most of what is offered on Jermyn Street?

[Mark Seitelman]

Add Sean O'Flynn to your list of London shirtmakers.

I can recommend him, and you can feel free to mention my name. I found him through the recommendation of George Glasgow.

Mr. O'Flynn runs his business out of Fallan & Harvey on Sackville Street . He was the shirtmaker at New & Lingwood. He travels to NYC twice a year, and I met him on his last trip in October at the Intercontinental Hotel.

Since his business is relatively new he is willing to deviate from the 6 shirt minimum. He wants things to "click" with a new customer.

He made an initial shirt for me which is excellent. No adjustments or revisions needed.

I'll look-up his number tomorrow in the office.

Cheers.

[Mark Seitelman]

Further information:

Sean O'Flynn, Bespoke Shirtmaker
7 Sackville Street
London, W1S 3DE

020 7437 0044
07810 325 980

s.o.oflynn@bitinternet.com
www.seanoflynn.co.uk (not yet up)