Cleverley shoes

[rjman]

Thank you Rolf for an illuminating and entertaining post.

Mr. Wildsmith is not completely retired yet -- while his shop is no longer, he still does the US visits with Hilditch & Key where he offers his usual lineup of rebadged C&J and EG. FYI.

As a note, there are a small handful of bespoke shoemakers who also make their own RTW -- Corthay and Saint Crispin for example. Trickers and Vass as well, if one wants to broaden the definition of bespoke a hair. However, while Edward Green, C&J and Lobb Paris have RTW and bespoke lines, their RTW -- while all excellent -- are not made to the same standard as their bespoke.

[DMacey]

Whilst I take your point and certainly agree that you should judge each item on its own merit, Dunhill do not market themselves as a maker of anything specific: they sell luxury goods. Cleverley do, they are shoemakers and go to some lengths to tell you how authentic, historic etc. they are. I suppose it is just another small (RTW?) step towards the factory taking over from the artisan. And maybe that is what is at the root of my disappointment?

[andreyb]

Another episode of outward lie: when I visited Foster & Son on Jermyn Street, I wore a pair of Albaladejos. I told Foster's salesman that I'm wearing spanish shoes, and asked his opinion on them.

He glanced at my shoes briefly, and instantly dismissed what he saw: "I don't know... Spanish leather... It is not like English leather..."

When I told him that, according to my knowledge, most of quality leathers come from Continental Europe, he quitly agreed...

Andrey

[felipe]

DMacey, I would highly recommend going bespoke with Cleverley. I tried a couple of makers without success before picking them and I haven't looked back since. I personally would take one bespoke pair over ten ready to wear. They may appear expensive when compared to RTW, but I think they are well worth it. If I had my way they would completely drop their RTW line altogether and just do bespoke but they sell well, and it helps pay the bills.

Regarding their RTW, the story I heard was that their line was commissioned from C&J to Cleverley's standards. Upon the success of Cleverley's RTW line, C&J later launched their Handgrade line, based on the same or similar work they were doing for Cleverley. It would be interesting to get other accounts of the timeline, or to somehow confirm this.

One thing I have found is that both Kilgour and Cleverley have been very forthcoming with the quality and provenance of their RTW lines. It could be because I am a bespoke customer of theirs, but they never tried to pretend something was not what it was (e.g. saying Cleverley RTWs are made by Cleverley).

[Percy.Trimmer]

A pair of 'Cleverley' rtws I picked up (at a very good price) in the January sale are clearly marked '337' on the box which would seem to confirm that they are C and J handgrades in disguise.

Interestingly the chap who served me mistook the old Church's 'Masterclass' brogues I was wearing for bespoke shoes.

[DMacey]

Thank you all very much for some interesting and insightful thoughts. I think I’m going to take the plunge and go bespoke. With Cleverley? I’m not sure yet but I am certainly looking forward to researching the project and getting the commission under way. Other than Cleverley, has anyone had any particularly good bespoke shoemaking experiences in London that they could share?

[EGAF]

Other than Cleverley, has anyone had any particularly good bespoke shoemaking experiences in London that they could share?

I have worked with both Green and Cleverley. The Cleverley shoes look better, fit better, have worn better and are far more durable. Quite simply, the shoes I have are a superiorly crafted product. I now have a second pair of Cleverleys and am planning a third, but I would be very hesitant to go with EG again. I hope this is helpful, and best of luck with your decision.

[EGAF]

Other than Cleverley, has anyone had any particularly good bespoke shoemaking experiences in London that they could share?

I have worked with both Green and Cleverley. The Cleverley shoes look better, fit better, have worn better and are far more durable. Quite simply, the Cleverley shoes I have are a superiorly crafted product. I now have a second pair of Cleverleys and am planning a third, but I would be very hesitant to go with EG again. I hope this is helpful, and best of luck with your decision.

[tattersall007]

I have worked with both Green and Cleverley. The Cleverley shoes look better, fit better, have worn better and are far more durable. Quite simply, the Cleverley shoes I have are a superiorly crafted product. I now have a second pair of Cleverleys and am planning a third, but I would be very hesitant to go with EG again. I hope this is helpful, and best of luck with your decision.

Would you mind elaborating on your poor experience with Edward Green bespoke? I have heard nothing but praise for Tony Gaziano's work and was looking forward to the day when I would commission from him.

Kind regards,

Tony

[EGAF]

Would you mind elaborating on your poor experience with Edward Green bespoke? I have heard nothing but praise for Tony Gaziano's work and was looking forward to the day when I would commission from him.

I too have heard nothing but praise for Tony Gaziano's work, and I was very surprised at the difference in quality. I would like to emphasize that the shoes from Green really are quite beautiful, and I don't wish to suggest that my experience has been typical. I am sure that other contributors to this forum will have plenty of examples of work done well. Furthermore, Mr. Gaziano has been very helpful and is working hard to rectify the problems. He has been an absolute pleasure to work with. Depending on the final outcome, I may well work with him on a second pair. Nevertheless, my experience with the two firms stands. I am elated over the quality of the Cleverley shoes and am, at this point, quite disappointed with the Greens.

[manton]

I found the actual construction and finishing of EG bespoke shoes to be slightly better than Cleverley.

[bengal-stripe]

I’ve had a pretty good experience with bespoke EG/Tony Gaziano, but do not take my word for it; actually do not take anybody’s word and make up your own mind.

Go and see a number of bespoke makers in London, see their samples, talk with them. Ultimately go with the firm you feel most comfortable with. It’s plain sailing if everything goes well, but even with the best firms, you might hit the rocks and problems occur. (JL-Paris has rather a high reputation, for quality as well as high prices, but one member of this forum did not have the best experience with them. I believe they are trying to rectify the problem.)

Pricewise, apart from John Lobb (St James’s) the top London firms charge more or less the same. Look up the following:

http://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/
http://www.gjcleverley.co.uk/
http://www.edwardgreen.com/ Tony Gaziano
http://www.amesbury.co.uk/
http://www.thelondonshoemaker.co.uk/ Paul Davies
http://www.newandlingwood.co.uk/
http://www.taylormadeshoes.co.uk/
Foster and Son/Maxwell – Jermyn Street.

Happy hunting.

One more thing, when you’ve decided on the firm, to be on the safe side, take a laptop with you and make a record of everything discussed and specified. Some firms (this applies to tailors as well as shoemakers) might conveniently forget what was discussed.

[Concordia]

Experience here has been uniformly good with Cleverley, jury still out on EG.

Those are some very fine-looking shoes on Amesbury's site. Anyone dealt with him, especially via his NYC visits?

[felipe]

Unfortunately I did not have such a great experience with JL Paris either. They were very professional and Philippe is a nice guy, but after 2 years and $4000 I just gave up. They made the shoes for me twice and they never fit properly, even after the elaborate fitting where they cut open the shoes, to the point that I can not wear them a full day without having pain in my ankles. With Cleverley I had a perfect fit from day one.

[rjman]

Bengal:

Far be it from me to call out a master, but my impression is that New & Lingwood does not have a bespoke shoe service any more. Can anyone confirm?