As I look at pictures, I see what I think is a British look - sort of tight, for lack of a better word - narrow in the waist, tight around the arms (maybe somewhat shorter on the wrists?).
Other suits are more baggy (this is a terrible adjective, I realize, and I don't believe they are ill fitting). They are not so tapered at the waist, the shoulders are fuller, etc.
So how would someone who speaks the language describe what I'm talking about? Or am I describing proper fit and improper fit?
Thanks for helping me shed the mantle of ignorance.
Terminology Q for suit fit
Dear Sir,
Tight and narrow are two adjectives that would frighten most bespoke dressers especially those who frequent Savile Row.
A bespoke jacket, no matter the style, will have a shoulders width, sleeve taper and waist that fits your body. There are SR styles that favor a slightly wider shoulder or a more natural waist, but the final choice as to these details is up to the customer.
M Alden
Tight and narrow are two adjectives that would frighten most bespoke dressers especially those who frequent Savile Row.
A bespoke jacket, no matter the style, will have a shoulders width, sleeve taper and waist that fits your body. There are SR styles that favor a slightly wider shoulder or a more natural waist, but the final choice as to these details is up to the customer.
M Alden
I freely admit that my choice of words is not ideal. That's most of the point actually - I'm searching for the right words. And I certainly don't mean to offend anyone's sensibiilty.
But it sounds to me like you're saying that for a given person, any suit will always fit the same way (circumfrence of sleeves, length of sleeves, width of back, etc.) and that the only difference among styles is the details that maybe don't directly affect fit - pockets, lapels, shoulder pads, etc.
Is that right?
But it sounds to me like you're saying that for a given person, any suit will always fit the same way (circumfrence of sleeves, length of sleeves, width of back, etc.) and that the only difference among styles is the details that maybe don't directly affect fit - pockets, lapels, shoulder pads, etc.
Is that right?
Kylawyer:
Please search this site, styleforum and AskAndyAboutClothes for articles written by London Lounge member, manton (or wait for him to show up in this thread). He has written extensively about the components of fit and style that create different looks and compares various categories of silhouettes such as the Savile Row, Neopolitan and American Sack.
I believe that he is one of the very very very few people who possess both detailed and broad knowledge of the subject and have the writing skill to convey that knowledge clearly without the need for copious illustration. Our host is another.
I have a few of those articles in mind, and if I can find them I will post links. They are precisely what you are looking for.
Here is an example: http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/foru ... IC_ID=4263
He wrote more on the subject in that thread, but since the remainder of the thread is no longer on line, I won’t post it without permission.
Please search this site, styleforum and AskAndyAboutClothes for articles written by London Lounge member, manton (or wait for him to show up in this thread). He has written extensively about the components of fit and style that create different looks and compares various categories of silhouettes such as the Savile Row, Neopolitan and American Sack.
I believe that he is one of the very very very few people who possess both detailed and broad knowledge of the subject and have the writing skill to convey that knowledge clearly without the need for copious illustration. Our host is another.
I have a few of those articles in mind, and if I can find them I will post links. They are precisely what you are looking for.
Here is an example: http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/foru ... IC_ID=4263
He wrote more on the subject in that thread, but since the remainder of the thread is no longer on line, I won’t post it without permission.
KYLawyer
The reality is that virtually every quality tailor has a cut that renders a particular line or “silhouette” to a suit of clothing. The appropriate way to discuss varying cuts, lines and silhouettes is to do so tailor by tailor, identifying the features that make Nicolosi, Nicolosi and Logsdail, Logsdail.
There are some general comments that can be made regarding, for example, Savile Row tailors, as long as one bears in mind that they are merely broad brush descriptions of a few specie of styles. For, even within the walls of a great house like Anderson & Sheppard, each cutter will render a unique cut and line.
The same is true of Naples where one can find structured and unstructured clothes, square lines, soft lines, Natural shoulders, pagoda shoulders, wide shoulders, narrow ones etc. In Rome, Milan and the rest of Italy there are no exceptions to this rule. The minute an artisan puts chalk to paper and cloth, the style will be personal and individual. That’s why bespoke tailoring is interesting.
It’s really only in the world of RTW that we see consistent lines manufactured. Somehow a discussion of this kind is better suited for a description of RTW trends and fashions as opposed to bespoke: Polo versus Armani etc., Milan versus the Brooks Brother sack suit.
There are, grosso modo, two basic categories that interest us: structured and unstructured clothing. These two fundamental styles are reflected in lines that can be very different; they can also be very similar.
The structured look of a tailor like Huntsman will often feature more narrow, squared shoulders, a more marked waist, and long, slim lines. The structure of the suit is guranteed by liberal doses of heavy duty padding. These suits often seem to be painted on the body. It's a suit of armor, a tortoise protected by a thick shell.
The unstructured AS look will offer wider shoulders, a more subtle definition at the waist and a more ample overall line. If one studies the works of AS trained tailors (Tom Mahon, both Hitchcocks, Edwin DeBoise, Brian Russell among others), one finds a diversity of cuts and lines within an essentially “unstructured” category. These are drape cuts. They are suspended from the shoulders. As such they do not seem painted on the body, but moving in harmony with the body. Fred Astaire'e suits which permitted intense atheltic activity are a good example.
The customer who wishes to enter the bespoke tailoring world should visit tailors, see their works and determine if the cut of one of these is appealing. I would prefer to see beginners in bespoke concentrate on the following: quality of fit, materials and construction. There are very few “silhouettes” that will look poorly on a man if the fit is correct, the materials used of the best quality and the sewing first rate. Concentrate on these issues and let your eye become trained to spot the details of line over time.
The reality is that virtually every quality tailor has a cut that renders a particular line or “silhouette” to a suit of clothing. The appropriate way to discuss varying cuts, lines and silhouettes is to do so tailor by tailor, identifying the features that make Nicolosi, Nicolosi and Logsdail, Logsdail.
There are some general comments that can be made regarding, for example, Savile Row tailors, as long as one bears in mind that they are merely broad brush descriptions of a few specie of styles. For, even within the walls of a great house like Anderson & Sheppard, each cutter will render a unique cut and line.
The same is true of Naples where one can find structured and unstructured clothes, square lines, soft lines, Natural shoulders, pagoda shoulders, wide shoulders, narrow ones etc. In Rome, Milan and the rest of Italy there are no exceptions to this rule. The minute an artisan puts chalk to paper and cloth, the style will be personal and individual. That’s why bespoke tailoring is interesting.
It’s really only in the world of RTW that we see consistent lines manufactured. Somehow a discussion of this kind is better suited for a description of RTW trends and fashions as opposed to bespoke: Polo versus Armani etc., Milan versus the Brooks Brother sack suit.
There are, grosso modo, two basic categories that interest us: structured and unstructured clothing. These two fundamental styles are reflected in lines that can be very different; they can also be very similar.
The structured look of a tailor like Huntsman will often feature more narrow, squared shoulders, a more marked waist, and long, slim lines. The structure of the suit is guranteed by liberal doses of heavy duty padding. These suits often seem to be painted on the body. It's a suit of armor, a tortoise protected by a thick shell.
The unstructured AS look will offer wider shoulders, a more subtle definition at the waist and a more ample overall line. If one studies the works of AS trained tailors (Tom Mahon, both Hitchcocks, Edwin DeBoise, Brian Russell among others), one finds a diversity of cuts and lines within an essentially “unstructured” category. These are drape cuts. They are suspended from the shoulders. As such they do not seem painted on the body, but moving in harmony with the body. Fred Astaire'e suits which permitted intense atheltic activity are a good example.
The customer who wishes to enter the bespoke tailoring world should visit tailors, see their works and determine if the cut of one of these is appealing. I would prefer to see beginners in bespoke concentrate on the following: quality of fit, materials and construction. There are very few “silhouettes” that will look poorly on a man if the fit is correct, the materials used of the best quality and the sewing first rate. Concentrate on these issues and let your eye become trained to spot the details of line over time.
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