The London Lounge

Growing out of a mention by couch in Clinging to the Wreckage - is an idea for naming famous enfants terribles - having some addiction isn't a pre-requisite but it helps. Since this is not a history class, I don't see why they should be in any particular order. But I'll kick off with poet and divine John Donne (1572-1631) and poet and a template for the modern Bad Boy, George Gordon, Lord Byron (1788-1824). Although Donne ended up as Dean of St Paul's Cathedral (over acceptance of the post he agonized, concerning his fitness) in his youth, he had been imprisoned for eloping with his employer's daughter and, as is clear from his poetry, been quite a ladies' man. His memorial bust in the old Cathedral survived the Great Fire of London unscathed and is now in the Wren Cathedral. Towards the end of his life, he practised lying in his shroud. Everyone knows about Byron but much was redeemed by his romantic death. They still wouldn't bury him in the Abbey and only recently was a memorial to him placed in Poets' Corner. His infant daughter, Allegra, is buried outside the door of the Church at Harrow.
NJS

Nicholas:

Having just watched Albert Lewin's stunning adaptation of The Picture of Dorian Gray in the screening room (a guilty pleasure reserved for Holloween), add Oscar Wilde to the list of enfants terribles. As a wordsmith with an uncanny gift of being able to harpoon the balloons of society, not only of his lifetime but the hypocrisy that still runs rampant in our own time, he truly was a rarity--an original talent capable of making you laugh out loud (The Importance of Being Earnest) or scaring the bejesus out of you with a dark tale of debauchery, evil and terror. What a talent! And to think that he was sent down and had to endure imprisonment in Reading for his sexual proclivities. The law really is an ass.

JMB

I am sure that Oscar has to be on the list. In a similar way, I think Dorothy Parker deserves a place.
NJS

Shouldn’t Brummell be on the list? If it helps, he was addicted to gambling and lost even what he did not possess at that.

Mozart

marcelo wrote:Shouldn’t Brummell be on the list? If it helps, he was addicted to gambling and lost even what he did not possess at that.

I did think of Brummell; although he was nearly thirty eight before he hit the unlucky streak and then, borrowing to pay debts, he lost all the borrowed money in a single session in a gambling 'Hell' in Jermyn Street. Mind you, he had, by then, broken George Harley Drummond in an evening's play and forced him to retire from the family bank - so go on - let's add Brummell!! Interestingly, the Royal Bank of Scotland owns the former Drummond's Bank at Charing Cross and they still have some very old records records at an office in Angel (maily stored on microfiche as they gave the paper ones to the War Effort) and these show various intersting things; including that Brummell's account was inactive for some time before he fled; but that it became active again for a time afterwards. But there is no record of any large transaction between GH Drummond and Brummell - suggesting that the money for Drummond's fatal evening's cards was paid in cash. One day I might return to that research - I stopped because Ian Kelly's biography of Brummell was published, to great acclaim and I didn't really see much point in continuing the research at the time - although it still seems to me that the running of Brummell's bank account would shed much light on: his purchases and habits; his winnings; his losses and his decline. Having said that, there are some missing records. There is a reference somewhere to his meeting Shelley at Charing Cross and telling him that he was going to his bank in the City - it was not Hoare & Co (as I have checked) but, alas, there were many banks then and who knows which other he might have used.
NJS _oooOOO

I would like to submit another name, to wit the Duke of Windsor. He had on his favor a life-long taste for cigars, pipes, and cigarettes. And his deeds in things sartorial, to the despair of many of his peers, are well-known within and beyond the limits of this forum.

All the ones so far suggested are pretty tame in my opinion, with the obvious exception of Byron. I put forward John Wilmot, the 2nd Earl of Rochester, poet and irredeemable rake. He makes Byron look positively chaste...

storeynicholas wrote: he had, by then, broken George Harley Drummond in an evening's play and forced him to retire from the family bank - so go on - let's add Brummell!! Interestingly, the Royal Bank of Scotland owns the former Drummond's Bank at Charing Cross and they still have some very old records records at an office in Angel (maily stored on microfiche as they gave the paper ones to the War Effort) and these show various intersting things; including that Brummell's account was inactive for some time before he fled; but that it became active again for a time afterwards. But there is no record of any large transaction between GH Drummond and Brummell - suggesting that the money for Drummond's fatal evening's cards was paid in cash. One day I might return to that research - I stopped because Ian Kelly's biography of Brummell was published, to great acclaim and I didn't really see much point in continuing the research at the time - although it still seems to me that the running of Brummell's bank account would shed much light on: his purchases and habits; his winnings; his losses and his decline.
NJS _oooOOO

Meyer & Mortimer claim that they are Drummond's (now RBS) 's oldest client. They still bank there.

Frog in Suit

storeynicholas wrote:One day I might return to that research - I stopped because Ian Kelly's biography of Brummell was published, to great acclaim and I didn't really see much point in continuing the research at the time - although it still seems to me that the running of Brummell's bank account would shed much light on: his purchases and habits; his winnings; his losses and his decline. Having said that, there are some missing records. There is a reference somewhere to his meeting Shelley at Charing Cross and telling him that he was going to his bank in the City - it was not Hoare & Co (as I have checked) but, alas, there were many banks then and who knows which other he might have used.
NJS _oooOOO

I know the feeling, NJS, but the kind of research you describe suggests that there's indeed more of interest to be told about a fascinating figure, and of course individual writing style contributes much to the effect of any book. So if you are drawn to the project, there may be room in the market for your study of Brummell. After all, how many biographies of Churchill are we up to now?

Frog in Suit wrote:

storeynicholas wrote: he had, by then, broken George Harley Drummond in an evening's play and forced him to retire from the family bank - so go on - let's add Brummell!! Interestingly, the Royal Bank of Scotland owns the former Drummond's Bank at Charing Cross and they still have some very old records records at an office in Angel (maily stored on microfiche as they gave the paper ones to the War Effort) and these show various intersting things; including that Brummell's account was inactive for some time before he fled; but that it became active again for a time afterwards. But there is no record of any large transaction between GH Drummond and Brummell - suggesting that the money for Drummond's fatal evening's cards was paid in cash. One day I might return to that research - I stopped because Ian Kelly's biography of Brummell was published, to great acclaim and I didn't really see much point in continuing the research at the time - although it still seems to me that the running of Brummell's bank account would shed much light on: his purchases and habits; his winnings; his losses and his decline.
NJS _oooOOO

Meyer & Mortimer claim that they are Drummond's (now RBS) 's oldest client. They still bank there.

Frog in Suit

I didn't mean to imply that Brummell actually broke Drummond's Bank - just a member of the family. Curiously, the archives show no record of the transaction and so, presumably, the debt was paid in cash. It was the first (and presumably last) time that G H Drummond played cards for high stakes.
NJS

couch wrote:

storeynicholas wrote:One day I might return to that research - I stopped because Ian Kelly's biography of Brummell was published, to great acclaim and I didn't really see much point in continuing the research at the time - although it still seems to me that the running of Brummell's bank account would shed much light on: his purchases and habits; his winnings; his losses and his decline. Having said that, there are some missing records. There is a reference somewhere to his meeting Shelley at Charing Cross and telling him that he was going to his bank in the City - it was not Hoare & Co (as I have checked) but, alas, there were many banks then and who knows which other he might have used.
NJS _oooOOO

I know the feeling, NJS, but the kind of research you describe suggests that there's indeed more of interest to be told about a fascinating figure, and of course individual writing style contributes much to the effect of any book. So if you are drawn to the project, there may be room in the market for your study of Brummell. After all, how many biographies of Churchill are we up to now?

That's a nice thought; thank you. There are also the records of Fribourg & Treyer, snuff chandlers to Brummell, and, by Brummell's introduction, to the Prince Regent and I have seen references to those records in a pamphlet written by one of the last independent owners of F&T and these too would provide some interesting information - I say would - I mean do - and they are preserved in the public records. Maybe, some day, I shall return to the spade work!
NJS