Ties not required

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troutonthefly
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:45 pm

Perhaps some of our New York members can share personal thoughts on today's story from the Times. :(
Cheers,
Trout

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/dinin ... .html?_r=1

A Last Bastion of the Necktie Throws in the Towel
By GLENN COLLINS
Published: January 27, 2009

THE earth held firm in its orbit. The continents did not founder. Martial law was not imposed. This, despite the fact that the “21” Club has loosened its tie for the first time since it opened at 21 West 52d Street 79 years ago.

The power-dining oasis, where Manhattan’s surviving masters of the universe daily attempt critical mass, announced last Thursday that the restaurant, virtually the last in town with a neckwear rule, had abandoned its tie requirement at dinner in its two dining rooms, the Bar Room and Upstairs at 21.

Ties are “preferred,” it said — indeed, “greatly appreciated.” And mind you, gentlemen, your jackets must stay on.

Actually, “21” instituted the policy “after Labor Day, a soft opening if you will,” said Bryan McGuire, the manager for the last, yes, 21 years. “We wanted to be on a more level playing field with our competitors,” he said, adding, “We didn’t think it was that big a deal.” Especially since, during lunch, the tie policy was ixnayed in 1996, he said.

The restaurant’s publicist, Diana Biederman, said she issued the release so people could “know about the policy in these challenging times.”

Mr. McGuire, though, insisted that the decision was not recession-driven.

But he allowed that the policy “could help the restaurant greatly in a time of difficulty.” Revenue, $18.5 million last year, is off by “double digits,” he said.

The restaurant has made other concessions to the economy, including free parking for all dinner patrons.

(For the record, he noted, ties are required in the 20-seat private dining room, the Wine Cellar.)

The Zagat 2009 New York City Restaurant guide has starred the Rainbow Room (which offers dinner on “selected” Friday and Saturday nights even as its landlord seeks to terminate its lease for nonpayment of rent) as the only other public restaurant requiring a tie among 13 that demand jackets.

“It is the final victory of Los Angeles,” Tim Zagat said.

So far, diners have responded with both fulmination and forbearance.

“Etiquette is on a downward spiral, and politeness is disappearing,” said Michael O’Keeffe, the dapper owner and proprietor of the River Café, who said that jacket and tie have been his unvarying uniform since his days at Fordham Preparatory School. “I will miss the tie policy at ‘21.’ It held up an example of what etiquette could be.”

He added that while the River Café requires jackets, it hasn’t insisted on ties in decades, because “it made no sense, to some very stylish people, that style had anything to do with ties.”

John F. Hennessy III, chairman of the American Council of Engineering Companies, a regular customer at “21” for 35 years who dined in the restaurant with both his father and grandfather, said, “I’m not shocked at the news,” adding: “It is an appropriate change.”

And Bill White, 42, president of the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum, who first ate at “21” when he was 21, allowed that “now Bill Gates and the Google guys can come in.”

But to Alan Flusser, a men’s wear designer in Manhattan who has been dining at “21” for 34 years, the no-tie policy “is unfortunate.” He added, “I’m a traditionalist, and I don’t think this sends the right message to young people.”

After the new tie policy was announced, one blog, Lost City (which describes itself as “a running Jeremiad on the vestiges of Old New York as they are steamrolled under”) asked: “Couldn’t we get the old-school La Grenouille to uphold the old ways and begin requiring ties again?”

Not likely, said Charles Masson, general manager of the 47-year-old restaurant that abandoned its tie-only policy in 2003 (but not its jacket requirement). “There used to be a time when men wore white wigs, too,” he said.

Julian Niccolini, a partner at The Four Seasons restaurant, asked simply, “Why should I tell people how to dress?” He said his restaurant stopped enforcing its tie policy in 1977.

The tie drawer in the “21” cloakroom — where generations of patrons have repaired their faux-pas — is as much a part of the restaurant’s lore as its checked tablecloths and the ceiling dangling with dozens of (obsessively dusted) toy airplanes, ships and football helmets (including that of Frank Gifford). The restaurant’s publicist, Ms. Biederman, said it would continue to proffer ties to the needy who prefer them.

“I remember one night they loaned me a navy blue fly-fishing tie — you know, with the flies on it,” Mr. Hennessy recalled. “I told them I liked it — and they gave it to me! I still have it.”
Last edited by troutonthefly on Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
storeynicholas

Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:20 pm

The same thing started to happen in London nearly 3 years ago - Les Ambassadeurs amazingly went from coat and tie to tee shirts overnight as a result of the economic pull of certain members. Shame - but there we are.
NJS
Cufflink79
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:22 pm

This is indeed sad, as a matter of fact in the movie Wall Street when Bud Fox went to meet with Gordon Gekko for lunch at "21", Gekko said to Fox, "Buy a decent suit, you can't come in here looking like that, go to Morty Sills tell him I sent you."

Being a gentleman means not putting down others and demeaning others clothing, but certain times and certain places require certain attire.

It doesn't have to be the most expensive tie in the world, but I truly believe that ties have a place in society, and 21 Club is one of those places.

Tying a tie is an important skill that men and even women should know.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79
Costi
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:13 pm

What is worrying is not that restaurants and clubs, obviously driven by the crisis, are giving up on etiquette requirements, but the fact that their clientelle has no dress standards, does not feel the need for any and is reluctant to any such house rules. The principle according to which "I pay, so I do as I please" without regard for OTHERS is guilty for taking us all here.
storeynicholas

Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:58 pm

Costi - You hit the nail on the head - the thing is that it those who pay a great deal who call the tunes and the restaurants and clubs dance to them. I even recently read of a women's fashion boutique which, on having a surprise visit from a big-spending 'celebrity' decided to tell the other customers to leave the shop to allow the 'celebrity' more space.
NJS
sartorius
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:43 pm

I have no problem with rules like this, but equally I don't think we should get too distraught about certain establishments relaxing them. If I'm going to a restaurant I would generally always wear a jacket, but what matters to me is, first, the quality of the food, second, the quality of the service, and third, the surroundings. With luck, all three will enhance your visit, but the first would always rank more important than the third, particularly on a point such as whether other diners were wearing ties or not.

To give an example, the article mentions the Rainbow Room, which I visited on a trip to NYC last October. The view was stunning (it is at the top of the Rockerfeller Centre), the clientele were extrememly smart, but the food was appalling. It was extremely expensive, and vastly overpriced in my opinion. For that matter, the service was pretty awful as well. At one point there was what sounded like a fight in the kitchen between two chefs and, having ordered a steak and then asked for mustard, I was brought a plastic tub of burger mustard in a yellow squeezy bottle - the sort of thing you would expect to be given in Burger King! Did the fact that everyone was in a tie or evening gown make up for this? Absolutely not.

I've never been to 21 but I daresay it will retain its appeal with or without neckwear.
storeynicholas

Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:21 pm

Sartorius - Is it just about restaurants and clubs ensuring that other customers are comforted by the fact that all men are wearing ties or it is also about certain establishments, having long recognised that the coat and tie rule is sound (for a variety of reasons - from the inference that men in coats and ties are less likely to comb their hair at the table to the self-esteem of the establishments themselves), now being prepared to abolish the rule because big hitters are so arrogant that they believe that they should be excused the rule's application? If there is, as one suspects, a fair measure of pandering to arrogance involved in this exercise then I for one abhor the craven abasement exhibited in the abolition as it is motivated out of nothing other than the fear of losing the big hitters'custom - and the further inference is that the rest of us can go hang! This all comes before they bring the user-friendly rubbery bottle of plastic mustard to the table - but not that long before!!
NJS
shredder
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:58 pm

Sartorius, I assure you, one does not go to 21 for the food. One never did and never will, with or without a necktie.
Costi
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:17 pm

I admit there are a few possibilities of being dressed elegantly without wearing a tie, even at a fine restaurant in the evening. The requirement for a tie is not always taken literally, but as an indication of classic elegant dress - a man showing up at a good restaurant wearing a pair of polished proper shoes, a well tailored suit and shirt with a bow tie or even an elegant ascot and pocket square is not likely to be refused entrance. However, my feeling is that the monied churls who would rather not to go a restaurant requiring ties don't have a predilection for ascots or bow ties. Instead, they would very much enjoy disdaining and vexing the feelings of the usual clientelle of an elegant place by doing away with the "obsolete" jacket and the trousers altogether and donning a pair of jeans or khakis, a bright T-shirt, possibly some fancy cotton cardigan and sneakers. Now, there are places where one can look fine dressed like that for dinner (actually they greatly outnumber the others), but what I deplore is that the clientelle for the ELEGANT restaurants has dwindled so much that their numbers can no longer support the business even in a city like New York or London.
Jovan the Un1337
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:50 pm

shredder wrote:Sartorius, I assure you, one does not go to 21 for the food. One never did and never will, with or without a necktie.
Then why do they go there? It's a restaurant.
Jordan Marc
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:52 pm

Shredder:

Having lived in New York City for 25 years, I assure you there was a time when patrons went to 21 expressly for the food and ambience. It was one of the best restaurants in midtown Manhattan. If you wanted a lively setting for a luncheon, you ate downstairs. If you wanted a more formal setting for dinner, you ate upstairs. Nobody carped about the food, it was never less than marvellous, and no one went home hungry. Best of all, 21 was in walking distance of all the Broadway theaters.

Funny thing about Broadway. It used to be comprised of 45 theaters, but there have never been more than 5 hit shows running at one time. Plays and musicals have come and gone--some dearly loved, others long forgotten--but it always comes down to just a handful of hits in any one season.

JMB
pvpatty
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Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:32 am

storeynicholas wrote:I even recently read of a women's fashion boutique which, on having a surprise visit from a big-spending 'celebrity' decided to tell the other customers to leave the shop to allow the 'celebrity' more space.
NJS
But I thought that the age of class divisions was well and truly dead!

This sort of thing happened in Melbourne recently with Paris Hilton. The fact that a store was closed for her exclusive use was bad enough, but the fact that afterward people rushed into the store to buy things because Paris Hilton had shopped there makes me wonder who is more stupid. I'm really quite puzzled though as to why Ms Hilton required exclusive use of the store; privacy must not have been a concern, because with every outfit she tried on, she would go to the front door and display herself to the army of paparazzi waiting outside.

Back to the topic at hand, there is a lot to be said for the novelty (for some of us) of putting on a tie and going somewhere special. It is that little extra effort, but it can make an event seem more unique and memorable. I'm not sure if the sentiment I'm trying to express is crystal clear, but the point is that the small things like a jacket and tie can often better the whole.
Jovan the Un1337
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Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:20 am

I understand what you mean. It's that feeling of, "Get dressed, we're going out!" Wish more of my friends were up for that.
shredder
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Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:42 am

Jordan Marc wrote:Shredder:

Having lived in New York City for 25 years, I assure you there was a time when patrons went to 21 expressly for the food and ambience. It was one of the best restaurants in midtown Manhattan. If you wanted a lively setting for a luncheon, you ate downstairs. If you wanted a more formal setting for dinner, you ate upstairs. Nobody carped about the food, it was never less than marvellous, and no one went home hungry. Best of all, 21 was in walking distance of all the Broadway theaters.

JMB
I knew my post was a bit, well, too concise. I do not disagree with you at all, JMB, with some qualifications relating to occasional periods when ownership or culinary leadership was in flux. My post was not meant to be a negative comment about their food. I think there are restaurants that one favours not primarily for the food but because of, as you succinctly said, ambience or the confluence of various factors, 21 being one of them. In midtown, there are arguably better alternatives available in terms of food while also not lacking in the standard of service and having a different but good ambience. In this particular example, I believe that the familiarity of the place and therefore of the faces seen therein contribute to the ambience that patrons find pleasing and comforting.

Jovan, as you know, there are places that are considered to be institutions for a variety of reasons. Because of their status as institutions, people feel confident that they will be treated and fed well, and in most instances, such expectations are met or exceeded. 21 is one of those institutions. The food at 21 is perfectly good most of the time, but I would submit that one wouldn't rush there if one's over-riding priority is culinary nirvana. My point was, perhaps too simply, that if the list of priorities resembled what I thought Sartorius meant, then there are plenty of other alternatives on the island.

In any case, if I caused any offence, I apologise.
alden
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Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:07 am

Les Ambassadeurs amazingly went from coat and tie to tee shirts overnight as a result of the economic pull of certain members. Shame - but there we are.
NJS

I would frankly prefer T shirts to the lewd display of men's decollete I saw in London recently. Shirts left open to the navel a la Tom Ford turned an elegant restaurant into a dressing or shower room.

Men should be required to be dressed out of respect to others and not parade around half naked. It's the 1970s nightmare all over again. Will this trend quickly pass? I hope so.

M Alden
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