The London Lounge

I notice there is at least one Danish member of the Lounge, so wonder if there are any fans of the work of Denmark's best composer, Carl Nielsen, amongst us? Would anyone agree with my contention that he's the best symphonist of the 20th Century? Any favourite performances or records?

Best wishes,
A.

"Fan" is too strong a word, although I did come to like very much his 4th Symphony after performing it once. Some of the overtures ("Maskarade", "Helios") are very effective.

Herbert Blomstedt did a well-regarded cycle of symphonies in San Francisco. What I've heard of it merits the praise bandied about.

Yes, the Blomstedt cycle is an impressive one. If you like the Overture to Maskarade you might well enjoy the 3rd Symphony (much less played on radio or in concert, though for no reason other than habit I think) - the recording by Chung with the Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra is really splendid, and the only part of the cycle where Chung gets the tempo right (the rest are too fast to my ear). As you might expect from Gothenburg, the sound is great too. It has the intensity of the Maskarade Overture at times, but it's also a much more sophisticated piece of music. The idea of what Simpson called 'progressive tonality' is something I find very appealing too.

Do I infer that you're a musician?

Algernon wrote: Do I infer that you're a musician?

Only you would know that.

But it would be a semi-correct inference.

I confess to being one of the benighted who don't know Nielsen's work. For other Loungers like me, I'd point out that the most recent New Yorker magazine included a profile of Nielsen which mentioned both the performances cited above.

Recently I purchased for $140 the Brilliant Classics 100-CD "Symphonies" set as the only in-print way to obtain the wonderful Adam Fischer Haydn symphonies cycle (at this price I didn't really care what the other 70 CDs were). It includes recent performances of the six Nielsen symphonies by Theodore Kuchar and the Janacek Symphony Orchestra which seem to be generally well regarded by critics.

I have yet to listen to them, but I'm going to move them up on my listening priority list. Do either of you (or any others) have opinions of these performances? And as a newcomer, is there an order you'd recommend I approach them in?

As a Dane and music lover, I definitely like Carl Nielsen and fully agree that he is the greatest of Danish composers, but whether he is the greatest symphonist of the 20th century I could not say. Even if we were to limit ourselves to talking about the greatest Scandinavian symphonist, Finnish members of the Lounge would have a strong case if they were to point to Sibelius. And personally, Adrian Leverkühn though German fascinates me most .

The Helios Ouverture is broadcasted on national radio at midnight of New Year's Eve just after the National and Royal Anthems (yes, we got both) and the New Year's hymn "Vær velkommen Herrens år." It is a very fitting piece of music for the occasion. Maskarade of course is charming and amusing, but as it is opera music I like it better live with the action going on on stage than on a record.

Outside Denmark Carl Nielsen's vocal compositions are probably much less known than his orchestral works, but to me they are what makes his music remain alive to this day. It would be difficult to find a Danish school or even home where they are not regularly sung, and I believe foreigners would enjoy their melodiousness even without understanding the accompanying text (which by the way often is not up to Nielsen's music). I can recommend vol. 10 of The Complete Aksel Schiøtz Recordings 1933-1946 issued by Danacord which even has (bad) English translations of the texts. It is probably a bit hard to get but other recordings are also available (Naxos for instance). By the way, Schiøtz had a wonderful voice, and there are very good versions of Die schöne Müllerin (with Gerald Moore on the piano) and Dichterliebe in the same series.

Are other members familiar with the work of Rued Langgaard? And if so, how do you like him? His fame has been growing in recent years, though I doubt he will ever step fully out of Nielsen's shadow.

Milo

But it would be a semi-correct inference.

I'm intrigued, and if you'd care to tell more would be interested. I envy and admire anyone who can play to a professional standard.

is there an order you'd recommend I approach them in?

For what it's worth, I'd advise beginning with no. 3, and thereafter listening to any excepting six which as the least accessable I'd keep till last. I don't think I've heard those recordings, and as I'm trying to augment my collection I'd be interested to hear your opinions when they come under your scrutiny.

but whether he is the greatest symphonist of the 20th century I could not say

We must consider consistency as well as quality. Aside from the fact that I think the music is some of the best there is, and suspect that many people who encountered a decent performance of recording would agree, keep in mind that the cycle is a very strong one. Most other modern symphonists have weak links in their output.

Thank you, Milo, for your recommendations! I shall certainly try to investigate those records.

Has anyone read the autobiography, My Childhood? I can't find a copy in translation, though they do exist. I'm told the Danish original is a work of some literary merit?

Algernon wrote:

... keep in mind that the cycle is a very strong one. Most other modern symphonists have weak links in their output.

Hmmm... a swipe at Shostakovich, not that I carry briefs for him.

Sibelius was generally very consistent. More so than Nielsen I could not say.

Other symphonists? There aren't too many after Mahler. I mean, if you exclude Bax, Brian, Schmidt, and other of more parochial interest. Elgar was technically 20th-century but there are issues there. Stravinsky? Not in the normal mode of symphony writing, but always working with the utmost skill. Ives has devoted fans, perhaps the same sort of people who would cotton to Nielsen in another time or place.

My favourite composers that sometime lived in the 20th century (as most were born earlier) are Mahler, Sibelius, Nielsen and Shostakovich. Actually, although they all are better known for their simphonies, I must say that Mahler's song cycles, Shostakovich's string quartets, Nielsen's concerts for flute, violin and clarinet, and various pieces by Sibelius are also great works. There is a clear connection between them, and they were IMHO the last great composers of classical music (the other 20th century greats I don't really consider as classical music composers, their music is too far away from the origin, these four were the last ones to compose within it, although at the edge of it).

For great 20th century symphonists, it's pretty hard to top Mahler. And don't forget Bartok, Rachmaninov, Korngold, Martinu, Bernstein, and Lutoslawski in addition to the others mentioned above. Not all have written symphonies, but have very interesting contributions to orchestral writing.

There are also modern living composers who have very interesting views on orchestral writing like Christopher Rouse, John Adams, Jennifer Higdon, Esa-Pekka Salonen, and Kaija Saariaho.

--Andre

edit: And how could I forget Copland!? And William Walton, too.

With the addition of Bartok, the list of my most cherished composers of the last century is nearly complete (I wouldn't greatly miss one or two who've been mentioned, but better to sample too much than too little, don't you think?). I'm a bit surprised not to see Williams (whom I prize) or Britten mentioned, though.

RVW did indeed write symphonies-- nine of them. Whether one groups him with Bax and Brian (above) is a matter of dispute.

Britten, however great, was not a symphonist.

I keep finding composers I've forgotten to mention as I go through my iPod: Prokoviev.

--Andre

There we go. Seven.

Consistent?

Concordia wrote:There we go. Seven.

Consistent?

If we're talking about Prokoviev, probably not. 1 is charming, and 5 is very good. His best works for me are the 2nd piano concerto, his wartime piano sonatas, and Romeo & Juliet.

Apart from Mahler, I'm not sure there's another 20th century composer who had consistently good symphonic output, and even with Mahler, there are some who dispute the quality of his work, but I think they're misguided.

--Andre