Ties not required

[storeynicholas]

The Eccentric Club is being revived, under the patronage of HRH The Duke of Edinburgh, probably in Jermyn Street premises. The mover and shaker is a member here. Anyone interested can see here: http://www.eccentricclub.co.uk/

Most of the clubs seem to be sticking to civilized dress but some will succumb to the zeitgeist.
NJS

[sartorius]

With all these shirts worn unbuttoned to the navel, I am not even sure how long THIS rule will resist...

You won't see many shirts unbuttoned to the navel around these parts. As I type it is snowing. Really rather heavily. Tomorrow will certainly be a day for neckwear of one sort or another. In my case, both tie and scarf!

[storeynicholas]

....while, in Rio, I am wearing the remains of a jersey hunting shirt, largely unbuttoned - but I am at home and it certainly is not snowing here...
NJS

[ottovbvs]

marcelo,
This is an interesting entry and also mentions the phenomenon of 'prole drift' which seems a very handy shorthand to sum up the increasing incidence of the phenomenon of two fingers' dressing and behaviour.
NJS

To me the place where it seems the most apparent is the London theater which obviously depends heavily on the tourist trade. When I was growing up in Britain, late forties/early fifties, the majority of the evening audience at a theater in London were wearing black tie and it was not uncommon to see it worn by some well into the sixties. Now a majority of a London theater audience is wearing jeans, sneakers and windbreakers topped off with the ubiquitous baseball cap. The total collapse seems to have happened in the last 20 years; a crush bar crowd in the eighties generally had suits and ties. Even in Vienna, a fairly formal city, I can remember an incident in the mid nineties when my family were leaving the small but good hotel for a concert and dressed tidily, suit and tie, and the concierge looked surprised and asked if we were going to the opera.

[storeynicholas]

ottobvs - this is undoubtedly true and, a little further back, in the 1930s, the increasing incidence of black over white ties in an audience normally heralded the end of a London run.
NJS

[ottovbvs]

ottobvs - this is undoubtedly true and, a little further back, in the 1930s, the increasing incidence of black over white ties in an audience normally heralded the end of a London run.
NJS

Before my time I fear. The last time I remember seeing anyone wearing white tie in a theater was at the opera in the early sixties when a few brave souls were clinging to tradition. I didn't go to the opera very often, couldn't afford it but used to see dramatic theater quite a lot, the great days when Olivier, Richardson, Gielguid and Guiness were always appearing in London productions, and black tie while not universal was quite common but started to fade in the late sixties as I recall. The last time I saw full evening dress in a London theater on an ordinary night was in about 1995 when there were four women, no men, all in full length dresses and diamonds. One was an Indian lady in a sort of evening Sari so I assume they were diplomats' wives.

[pvpatty]

I was invited the other night to a function held at the Queensland Parliament House, where a dress code described as 'neat casual' was interpreted by many to mean t-shirts and jeans.

[storeynicholas]

I was invited the other night to a function held at the Queensland Parliament House, where a dress code described as 'neat casual' was interpreted by many to mean t-shirts and jeans.

Maybe it'll get to the stage when invitations will specify : Clothing optional to permit some people to turn up in the nude - but with all the accessories - croc belts, shoes, watches; gloves might make a comeback and hats to store one's handkerchief - everyone .will have a handbag (where else to put your keys?) and the conversation could usefully be about the problems of droop rather than the advantages of drape. Alternatively, [/i]black tie and white tie will continue to appear on invitations but the statement will be taken literally and gentlemen will confine their clothing to a tie each and use their creativity in placement.
NJS

[sartorius]

I've visited Australia many times. It is obviously a generalisation on my part, but I think there is a part of the Aussie physche which deliberately rebels against what they might see as "Pommie pretention" and which manifests in a sort of anti-formality in their style of dress.

Having said that, when it's 30 degrees+ I rather enjoy the liberation of board shorts and thongs. Being a rather gaunt and pale skinned Brit, I never really understood this until I spent a year in Australia in the early 90s. There is a place for all modes of apparel, although I agree that it's a shame the guests at Parliament House didn't feel the need for a little more thought and care...

[pvpatty]

I was invited the other night to a function held at the Queensland Parliament House, where a dress code described as 'neat casual' was interpreted by many to mean t-shirts and jeans.

Maybe it'll get to the stage when invitations will specify : Clothing optional to permit some people to turn up in the nude - but with all the accessories - croc belts, shoes, watches; gloves might make a comeback and hats to store one's handkerchief - everyone .will have a handbag (where else to put your keys?) and the conversation could usefully be about the problems of droop rather than the advantages of drape. Alternatively, [/i]black tie and white tie will continue to appear on invitations but the statement will be taken literally and gentlemen will confine their clothing to a tie each and use their creativity in placement.
NJS

Now there's a frightening thought.

[pvpatty]

I've visited Australia many times. It is obviously a generalisation on my part, but I think there is a part of the Aussie physche which deliberately rebels against what they might see as "Pommie pretention" and which manifests in a sort of anti-formality in their style of dress.

Sartorius, that much is true, and certainly in Queensland. However, this sort of thing used to manifest itself in more elegant ways. Men would at least wear short sleeved shirts with ties or shorts with long socks. Nowadays, most people get around in denim anyway, which I cannot believe because I find that it wears far warmer than a pair of chinos or the like!

[Cordovan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... tml?sub=AR

If you can't access that, the article was posted here too:
http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=102821

Cordovan

[Jovan the Un1337]

Jovan, as you know, there are places that are considered to be institutions for a variety of reasons. Because of their status as institutions, people feel confident that they will be treated and fed well, and in most instances, such expectations are met or exceeded. 21 is one of those institutions. The food at 21 is perfectly good most of the time, but I would submit that one wouldn't rush there if one's over-riding priority is culinary nirvana. My point was, perhaps too simply, that if the list of priorities resembled what I thought Sartorius meant, then there are plenty of other alternatives on the island.

In any case, if I caused any offence, I apologise.

No worries. Why would that offend me? I apologise for my late response. I was getting away from forums for a while.

As for the "economic pull" -- that's bull and we know it. I'm a poor college student and own at least a dozen ties, though I'm not suggesting I'm better than my peers for it. However, I submit that every man in his 20s should own at least one dark suit and tie, white shirt, and shineable shoes. You never know when you'll need them.

[Pelham]

I can't stand shirts unbuttoned down to the waist, but I'd suggest that wearing a shirt with no tie and fastening up all the buttons including the collar button is scarcely any better. To fasten the collar button simply draws attention to the lack of necktie, while also appearing stiff and like a runway model into the bargain. Fastening all buttons except for the collar button seems the only way to wear a shirt with no necktie with dignity. Obviously some form of neckwear is preferable.

[Costi]

I can't stand shirts unbuttoned down to the waist, but I'd suggest that wearing a shirt with no tie and fastening up all the buttons including the collar button is scarcely any better. To fasten the collar button simply draws attention to the lack of necktie, while also appearing stiff and like a runway model into the bargain. Fastening all buttons except for the collar button seems the only way to wear a shirt with no necktie with dignity. Obviously some form of neckwear is preferable.

I agree. The best thing that goes with an open collar is a silk scarf of ascot - I am never without one when I don't wear a tie.