North of Italy: Milan, Turin, Genoa

[andreyb]

...or Milano, Torino, Genoa

I plan to visit these three cities during a Spring break in April. Never been in any of them before.

Any recommendations?

Of what? -- not major tourist attractions (I can use a guidebook for this) nor bespoke artisans (no time for this).

But lesser-known tourist attractions, cafes, restaurants, shops, bars, etc. To paraphrase Honore de Balzac, "places and experiences of grace and good taste".

There is some information on Milano in LL already: here and there. But zero on Torino or Genoa.

Much appreciated!

Andrey

[andy57]

It's been quite a few years since I was in Genoa, but it is a lovely city with a very rich history. There is a street that runs from the harbor back up a hill that is lined with grand palazzos built in the heyday of Genoa's maritime power. It is well worth booking a guided tour of these palazzos. Indeed, I find that arranging for a private guide for a half-day in a new city is a great investment. We still book a guide now and then in Florence, a city we know like the backs of our hands and we still learn something new each time!

Genoa is at the northern end of the Ligurian coast, itself worth getting out and exploring. I strongly recommend visiting Recco, and purchasing Focaccia di Recco alla Formaggio from a small restaurant (there are several that specialize in it). Sheer heaven.

[Melcombe]

Im presently doing some work with a business based in Turin / Torino – and have been lucky to have an excuse to visit there a few times over the last 3 years. One of the best things about Turin is that it is not on the tourist trail. It’s a true working city – the centre of the Italian motor industry, modestly picturesque, and quietly prosperous.

I’ve yet to eat a bad meal in Torino. You can spend as much or as little as you like in restaurants and still feel you’ve got a good deal. Some decent museums – I was especially impressed by the Motor Museum https://www.museoauto.com/en/

I’ve spent my most enjoyable interludes there simply sitting outside cafes watching the Torinese world go by.

I’m also researching tailors in the city – since my own UK based Italian tailor has sadly decided to retire despite only being in his mid-80s. I have located 1 contender (working from his own appartamento in the city centre) but I fear he’s also in winding-down mode. If you come across any do let me know!

[andreyb]

It's been quite a few years since I was in Genoa, but it is a lovely city with a very rich history. There is a street that runs from the harbor back up a hill that is lined with grand palazzos built in the heyday of Genoa's maritime power. It is well worth booking a guided tour of these palazzos. Indeed, I find that arranging for a private guide for a half-day in a new city is a great investment.

Agree -- a good guide might be an eye-opener.

Genoa is at the northern end of the Ligurian coast, itself worth getting out and exploring. I strongly recommend visiting Recco, and purchasing Focaccia di Recco alla Formaggio from a small restaurant (there are several that specialize in it). Sheer heaven.

Thanks for the tip! I plan to spend a day east of Genova -- Recco, Rapallo, Portofino (if I can fit three small cities in a day... probably not -- which one of three better to drop?)

I’ve yet to eat a bad meal in Torino. You can spend as much or as little as you like in restaurants and still feel you’ve got a good deal. Some decent museums – I was especially impressed by the Motor Museum https://www.museoauto.com/en/

This museum is on my list! -- though it's a bit off the city center. There is also "Pinacoteca Giovanni e Marella Agnelli" nearby (? -- hard to judge distances on Google Map) -- have you been there? Worth to visit? (I understand it won't compare with "big" museums; but sometimes a small art collection brought with good taste brings even more enjoyment)

I’ve spent my most enjoyable interludes there simply sitting outside cafes watching the Torinese world go by.

I know I'm sounding a little bit wimpy, but can you drop a couple of names? Not best coffee / food / price-quality ratio, no -- just a few good places for "sitting outside ... watching the Torinese world go by."

If you come across any do let me know!

Well, I'm afraid I'm not looking for bespoke artisans this time, so won't help you here.

Andrey

[Concordia]

Not quite in this triangle, but Cremona is not too far. Check out Stradivari and other makers' work at the museum.

[andy57]

Genoa is at the northern end of the Ligurian coast, itself worth getting out and exploring. I strongly recommend visiting Recco, and purchasing Focaccia di Recco alla Formaggio from a small restaurant (there are several that specialize in it). Sheer heaven.

Thanks for the tip! I plan to spend a day east of Genova -- Recco, Rapallo, Portofino (if I can fit three small cities in a day... probably not -- which one of three better to drop?)

Drop Rapallo. Go to Recco for the focaccia and to Portofino because, well, it's Portofino.

[Melcombe]

I know I'm sounding a little bit wimpy, but can you drop a couple of names? Not best coffee / food / price-quality ratio, no -- just a few good places for "sitting outside ... watching the Torinese world go by."

The main pedestrianised retail street is via Giuseppe Garibaldi. The caffes are aimed at passing business and most seem to have outside seating. Caffe Garibaldi is a good example at the cheaper end and in a less busy part of the street. I had a notably good coffee there.

Having said that, there is a caffe down every side street and at the eastern end of via Garialdi is Piazza Castello with some rather more glamorous settings for restaurants and places to be seen as much as to see.

There is also the Caffe al Bicerin, which is as touristy as Torino gets (which isn't especially touristy!) - it's reputedly where the coffee / chocolate drink was invented. Everywhere else sells it without the queues and price premium.

Have a lovely trip - Im hoping to be there after Easter if I can manage it,

[andreyb]

Thank you andy57 and Melcombe!

[Bwooster]

Caffè Mulassano on Piazza Castello in Turin is my go-to for coffee, panini, and people watching. Beautiful interiors.

[trettay]

I love Torino. It's a fantastic place to visit. It's a very elegant city and the cafes are historic - for example Agnelli was a customer at Platti, D'Annunzio at Mulassano, Nietzsche at Cafe Florio, and I'm sure many others I don't know about. Some of the cafes make their own vermouth which I recommend trying (however you take it) in addition to the coffee drinks. If you like their stuff, they will sometimes have bottles you can buy. Every cafe will have a bicerin as well, so you can try it different ways. The lines at the namesake cafe are too long imo.

Torino is also a town of chocolatiers and you can make a "tour" as they all will sell you a single tiny cremino or gianduiotto (along with a bicerin or coffee). Gobino is the most famous/best and my taste may not be that refined, but I could not really tell the difference between any of the many chocolate stores' cremini, giandiotti, and hazelnut spreads. The colazione at Farmacia del Cambio is worth it if you can get there early and beat the crowd. The inside is very elegant and if you get lucky, you may be seated in the restaurant proper (or if you get nice weather, outside. For outside you have to get there before opening).

For sartorial things- Michele Mescia is a competent tailor, Camiceria Carmen for shirts. I mention them because they are centrally located and you'll likely be in the area anyway. Xerjoff, the perfumer has their flagship store in town as well. The attendants speak fluent English and were quite patient with me.

I've not been to Genoa for more than 20 years, so I cannot recommend anything but hope you enjoy yourself there.

As for Milan, it's a well trod path sartorially- but I personally find the city as a whole overwhelming. Give Loste Cafe a try for breakfast (their baked goods are fantastic), Pave' and Pan are also very good. Get to them early if you want to try their best stuff. Orsonero coffee for great 3rd wave coffee, really one of the best I've had in Italy if you are not into their lavazza/kimbo etc espresso drinks. I recommend Tonsor club for a haircut if you need one, the one I got there has been my reference ever since.
The risotto at Ratana' is also very good and it takes you near Bosco Reale for a peak at that neighborhood.

Enjoy your time in Italy.

[andreyb]

Bwooster, trettay, thank you both for the superb recommendations!

trettay -- your post is what makes this forum the place it is. It was worthy for me to start the thread for your reply alone!

Andrey

[andreyb]

Gentlemen,

I'm back from my trip; here are some [very, very belated...] random notes and impressions.

First of all, thank you again to everyone who replied on my questions! All your suggestions proved to be right on point!

Among the three cities, my personal rating is: 1) Genoa 2) Torino and then [a distant third] 3) Milano. Sorry to Milaneses over here -- and obviously, I'm speaking as a clueless tourist only -- but *way* too much people and the worst service in restaurants I had for a long time. Well, maybe it's because my visit directly preceded Milan's Fashion Week -- who knows?



One place in Milano is really terrific, though -- "Camparino" in Galleria Vittorio Emanuele II. Yep! -- it's probably in the most touristic spot in the whole city (Galleria on the one side; Duomo on another), but for me it's a coctail bar as it's meant to be.



"Antica Barberia Colla" is surprisingly non-modern (almost shabby) and down-to-earth establishment -- compared with, say, Trumper's in London, which is sleek and glitzy in comparison.



"Galleria d'Arte Moderna" is an interesting museum -- if you love late 19th / early 20th century art. Here you can see Italian artists you won't often find in galleries. In general, though, museums in these three cities is a big disappointment -- long queues, expensive admission tickets and guides generally available in Italian only!

Some notes on sartorial side. It seems every Italian city has one "British" (sometimes almost caricaturicaly British) shop.

Ghiglino in Genoa:



"By appointment to our best customers"!

There is "Sir Wilson" (sic!) in Torino. No photos, sorry.



Finollo is small, authentic and decidedly luxury store / atelier -- on the most luxe street in Genoa.

It has the reputation of being "the most expensive shirtmaker in Italy" -- so it was surprising to find that bespoke shirts here start from 250 euros only (but you have to pay extra for more expensive cloth, hand work, replacement collar, etc).

One unique offering is that they can make you a tie with a small image of your choice beautifully sown by hand -- and do so in a single day!



After some delibration, I decided to put my dog's tail along with my initials (in Cyrillic).



It seems such ties is a Genovese "thing" -- several shops offer them. Not sure who else can put a hand-made image, though.



There is a signed photo of DoW and Wallis Simpson on the wall

"...we made a shirt for him with this collar"



...and a shirt with suspiciously familiar initials...

Yep! -- Gianni Agnelli was also a customer.

"He ordered a very strange shirt, that combined a shirt with boxer shorts..."



Hmmm... Looks like GA took some sartorial hints (or misses? ) from DoW.



This is GA's collar.



And speaking on collars -- this is a "special" Finollo collar shape, along with a demonstration of its merits.

Andrey

[Luca]

Interesting observations. I take your point about Milan; it's overtouristed. To get the best out of it you need local knowledge.