Gentlemen,
I have been visiting this site for about a year and have found it both informative and fascinating. However it seems to me that, whilst there is much discussion about how to dress in town, there is much less discussion about how one might dress elegantly when one lives, as I do, in the country.
My current, frankly pitiful wardrobe has been acquired mainly from the 'high street'. Bespoke is a mysterious and wonderful new world to me. So I thought it might be interesting to lay before you some of the more pertinent details of my day to day life to see what you might suggest as a starting point for an elegant, yet practical, wardrobe that fits in with my lifestyle.
I am in my late 30s. I live in a village in the heart of the countryside about 100 miles from London. I am a product designer (desk bound). I often cycle to the office, but frequently drive my little roadster. I walk the dogs once or twice a day across the fields in all kinds of weather. In my spare time, I fly a little sport aeroplane. I rarely have occasion to visit the city and when I do it is usually a quick dash up to meet with a client.
My immediate requirements are these:
1. Something smart for work (summer and winter), particularly to meet with clients. However, interestingly, it is not quite fitting for a designer to look like a banker, or a businessman (his creative abilities would never be taken seriously). He must look, well, creative, but elegant nonetheless. A suit, of course, is more than acceptable and one that might double for other occasions such as weddings.
2. Something for those long walks with the dogs (in all weathers - wellingtons are often essential footwear). Or for popping along to a county show, or to take my daughter to a dressage or show jumping competition.
3. Something for dinner parties with friends. Could be combined with No.1.
4. Something for a day at the airfield. When I actually fly, a proper all in one flying suit is the form, but one can wear what one wants underneath! However, one also needs soft, lightweight shoes with a good grip, slim profile and able to withstand wet grass.
5. Something for popping into town to the bookshop/cheese shop/wine shop!
6. Something for occasions I might have forgotten to mention! The odd ball, a cocktail party, the cinema or the theatre.
My preferred style is for something simple, understated and elegant, yet relevant. Most of all I do not wish to look like I think I am some sort of country squire.
My budget will only allow me to acquire two or three items a season. Perhaps a mid priced bespoke navy suit this winter (£1000-1500?), followed by a new blazer and trousers for the spring for example. So some pointers on order of priority would be useful.
I welcome any suggestions you might have as to how I might begin to create a truly classic wardrobe.
Some practical advice required for life in the countryside
Dear Porteus,
Your environment and occupation are the ideal background for developing a casual chic wardrobe. The possibilities are countless and much more interesting than the eternal blue and grey worsted town suits.
Your basics should be: flannels, cords, moleskins (as trouserings), tweeds (coatings and overcoatings), viyella (for non-summer shirts), linen (for summer).
Odd trousers and odd jackets cut along simple, comfortable, flowing lines will allow you a great number of combinations, making for a versatile wardrobe. You don't even need so many of them. A couple of pairs of gray flannel slacks (medium gray, darker gray), a couple of moleskins (chocolate brown, olive), one or two cords (eggshell brown), a few tweed jackets (a herringbone Harris tweed, a Donnegal, something with a generously sized overcheck) and you can already dress differently every day for a couple of weeks. A couple of shirt jackets with patch pockets, if you like them - in coton or wool. Add a Raglan and an Ulster made of nice tweeds and you're ready to face winter, too. Go for derbies, plain and brogued, in your favourite shades of brown - cordovans are particularly recommended. A pair of storm welt boots, to walk under rain. A waxed cotton Barbour (did you know they also make raincoats for dogs?
). Scarves, wool mufflers, tweed caps, a Trilby (if you fancy one).
Get a gray flannel suit before a blue worsted one. It can take you to London very well (particularly if you don't stay there) and it won't be inappropriate dress for a product designer visiting a client in the City. You can take it out to dinner with friends, too, or for popping into town to replenish on books, wines and cheese.
A blazer is good to have - if you do have a dark blue suit made, the coat might double as a blazer, worn with odd trousers, until you have a proper one made.
These items, adequately combined and accessorized, should take you with style to almost all places you mention (perhaps except a wedding and a ball). If you choose the fabrics wisely and style the clothes classically, you shouldn't end up looking like you think you're a country squire.
As for priorities - I would start with the most versatile items: gray flannel trousers and a herringbone tweed jacket (preferrably not gray, too). Moleskins and cords can be bought RTW, as well, but if you can have them made bespoke without spending a fortune, go for it. The Barbour (to go with the Wellies) would be at the top of the list, too, given the season.
There is so much more to it than what I sketched above, but it's a start. I can't wait to read what others suggest. Michael Alden might write a book starting from your post
Your environment and occupation are the ideal background for developing a casual chic wardrobe. The possibilities are countless and much more interesting than the eternal blue and grey worsted town suits.
Your basics should be: flannels, cords, moleskins (as trouserings), tweeds (coatings and overcoatings), viyella (for non-summer shirts), linen (for summer).
Odd trousers and odd jackets cut along simple, comfortable, flowing lines will allow you a great number of combinations, making for a versatile wardrobe. You don't even need so many of them. A couple of pairs of gray flannel slacks (medium gray, darker gray), a couple of moleskins (chocolate brown, olive), one or two cords (eggshell brown), a few tweed jackets (a herringbone Harris tweed, a Donnegal, something with a generously sized overcheck) and you can already dress differently every day for a couple of weeks. A couple of shirt jackets with patch pockets, if you like them - in coton or wool. Add a Raglan and an Ulster made of nice tweeds and you're ready to face winter, too. Go for derbies, plain and brogued, in your favourite shades of brown - cordovans are particularly recommended. A pair of storm welt boots, to walk under rain. A waxed cotton Barbour (did you know they also make raincoats for dogs?
). Scarves, wool mufflers, tweed caps, a Trilby (if you fancy one).Get a gray flannel suit before a blue worsted one. It can take you to London very well (particularly if you don't stay there) and it won't be inappropriate dress for a product designer visiting a client in the City. You can take it out to dinner with friends, too, or for popping into town to replenish on books, wines and cheese.
A blazer is good to have - if you do have a dark blue suit made, the coat might double as a blazer, worn with odd trousers, until you have a proper one made.
These items, adequately combined and accessorized, should take you with style to almost all places you mention (perhaps except a wedding and a ball). If you choose the fabrics wisely and style the clothes classically, you shouldn't end up looking like you think you're a country squire.
As for priorities - I would start with the most versatile items: gray flannel trousers and a herringbone tweed jacket (preferrably not gray, too). Moleskins and cords can be bought RTW, as well, but if you can have them made bespoke without spending a fortune, go for it. The Barbour (to go with the Wellies) would be at the top of the list, too, given the season.
There is so much more to it than what I sketched above, but it's a start. I can't wait to read what others suggest. Michael Alden might write a book starting from your post
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S. Gillette
- Posts: 76
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Costi has already given great advice. I am looking forward to seeing what other members suggest. This might become an essential thread for new posters.
Most men begin their bespoke adventures with city wear and then transmit their acquired taste to the country. It rarely is a satisfactory affair. The slim, closely tailored fit for town normally lacks the ease and versatility important in the country. Men might be better to learn to dress for country pursuits and apply the things they find successful to their dress for urban climes.
Actually when I read this post, my very first thought was that it would take a book to answer the question well. So, Costi, you anticipated me telepathically and you must have done so as you know that I have been tinkering around with many designs for my own country life.
I actually find country dress more interesting than its more restrictive city relative. The field is wide open. Dress as you please. Choose comfort paired with utility as your foundation and let your imagination take the lead. Follow it. Making clothes with pockets to contain Magnums is so much more fun than clothes with pens pockets.
I heartily second the motion for the gray flannel suit for the creative man in all of us. The Eden in Paris cloth made recently in our club is a good example. It is smart in every sense of the word.
For that walk clad in “French” wellies (gasp!) with the dog, you should have a ¾ coat made. Often in the brush, a normal coat is not protective or warm enough, and an overcoat would be too long and restrictive. A sturdy ¾ coat with plenty of pockets is an absolute wonder in the country and something you can use in many situations, even for jaunts to the city where it doubles as the dreaded “car coat.”
Most of the country squires I know dress for practicality during the week, the country version of an urban suit: Cords and Carhart. On the weekends the squirely set dresses for town, suits that are rarely worn and look the part.
Wear your clothes and wear them hard. If you have chosen the cloth correctly, they will thank you for the use and make you look better. And the choice of cloth is what makes country dress enjoyable: tweeds and not the “suitable” (whatever that means) ones, but real colorful tweeds, whipcords, bedfords, heavy flannels, heavier cotton twills and moleskins paired with heavy doubled soled chestnut derbys. And never forget your hat or cap. In a downpour you will appreciate its cover.
In some way, modeling dress to fit country activities makes us connect with the rhythms of life, the seasons more deeply. In the city, we dress pretty much the same way no matter the season. The weight of the cloth changes, but we are protected by city walls. In the country you maybe fishing, on horseback, felling trees in one season, be trying to stave off frost in another and be walking, picnicking, collecting wilds herbs by cool rivers in yet another season. So the designs for our dress in each season can be as complex and varied as our pursuits. This is the kind of thing that makes tailors very happy!
Cheers
Michael Alden
Actually when I read this post, my very first thought was that it would take a book to answer the question well. So, Costi, you anticipated me telepathically and you must have done so as you know that I have been tinkering around with many designs for my own country life.
I actually find country dress more interesting than its more restrictive city relative. The field is wide open. Dress as you please. Choose comfort paired with utility as your foundation and let your imagination take the lead. Follow it. Making clothes with pockets to contain Magnums is so much more fun than clothes with pens pockets.
I heartily second the motion for the gray flannel suit for the creative man in all of us. The Eden in Paris cloth made recently in our club is a good example. It is smart in every sense of the word.
For that walk clad in “French” wellies (gasp!) with the dog, you should have a ¾ coat made. Often in the brush, a normal coat is not protective or warm enough, and an overcoat would be too long and restrictive. A sturdy ¾ coat with plenty of pockets is an absolute wonder in the country and something you can use in many situations, even for jaunts to the city where it doubles as the dreaded “car coat.”
Most of the country squires I know dress for practicality during the week, the country version of an urban suit: Cords and Carhart. On the weekends the squirely set dresses for town, suits that are rarely worn and look the part.
Wear your clothes and wear them hard. If you have chosen the cloth correctly, they will thank you for the use and make you look better. And the choice of cloth is what makes country dress enjoyable: tweeds and not the “suitable” (whatever that means) ones, but real colorful tweeds, whipcords, bedfords, heavy flannels, heavier cotton twills and moleskins paired with heavy doubled soled chestnut derbys. And never forget your hat or cap. In a downpour you will appreciate its cover.
In some way, modeling dress to fit country activities makes us connect with the rhythms of life, the seasons more deeply. In the city, we dress pretty much the same way no matter the season. The weight of the cloth changes, but we are protected by city walls. In the country you maybe fishing, on horseback, felling trees in one season, be trying to stave off frost in another and be walking, picnicking, collecting wilds herbs by cool rivers in yet another season. So the designs for our dress in each season can be as complex and varied as our pursuits. This is the kind of thing that makes tailors very happy!
Cheers
Michael Alden
Excellent post, Alden!
I have to agree that country dress is much more interesting and pleasureable than city.
I wish now that I had in my closet the inverse proportion of suits/country than I actually have. And in hindsight, I also wish that I had first started having country wear bespoke than suits.
The lessons learned in making country clothing could certainly have been profitably applied when bespeaking city wear.
The sports coats are cut generously and comfortably, large enough to wear a sweater underneath. The cloth is comforting, it actually serves a purpose: to keep me warm and dry.
Country cloth colors, variegation, texture and heft offer alot of pleasure and provide a lesson in the importance of cloth to the psychic pleasure of clothing and dressing.
And certainly country clothing should be worn hard as clothing has an honest purpose and should not be treated preciously and cautiously. Having clothing serve the wearer rather than the wearer serve his clothes is perhaps the first step in sprezzatura.
I have to agree that country dress is much more interesting and pleasureable than city.
I wish now that I had in my closet the inverse proportion of suits/country than I actually have. And in hindsight, I also wish that I had first started having country wear bespoke than suits.
The lessons learned in making country clothing could certainly have been profitably applied when bespeaking city wear.
The sports coats are cut generously and comfortably, large enough to wear a sweater underneath. The cloth is comforting, it actually serves a purpose: to keep me warm and dry.
Country cloth colors, variegation, texture and heft offer alot of pleasure and provide a lesson in the importance of cloth to the psychic pleasure of clothing and dressing.
And certainly country clothing should be worn hard as clothing has an honest purpose and should not be treated preciously and cautiously. Having clothing serve the wearer rather than the wearer serve his clothes is perhaps the first step in sprezzatura.
Thank you all.
Your posts are incredibly helpful and inspiring. Costi's reply had already got me started on a flurry of research activity and the posts from Michael Alden and Uppercase have given me even further encouragement. It seems that the scope is endless, but I feel I now have a very firm basis on which to start.
I have so many more questions, but I think these will take a more specific shape once I start piecing a wardrobe together. I intend to start with, obviously, winter garments, but I desperately need a suit. Is it possible to pair the grey flannel suit trousers with a tweed coat or are these usually of a broadly different style?
Michael, I would be interested to know what style of ¾ coat you mean and in what type of cloth? A waterproof coat, such as a Barbour, is almost a must here. I need to be able to throw something on over whatever I am wearing to pop outside to deal with dogs, horses etc and a Barbour is great for that (and yes, they do make raincoats for dogs
). But for something slightly smarter, the ¾ sounds interesting.
I think my priority is an outfit based around a tweed sports coat. I could happily wear this style everyday throughout autumn, winter and spring and it would actually work very well for certain client meetings locally. I imagine a plain, knitted silk tie works well with a tweed too? I am also keen on dark coloured wool v neck sweaters which can be very useful over a shirt. They always seem work well under a tweed?
I would like a bespoke tweed coat, but perhaps RTW cords, as I fancy I get through trousers very quickly. Any recommendations on a good source of RTW cords?
Your posts are incredibly helpful and inspiring. Costi's reply had already got me started on a flurry of research activity and the posts from Michael Alden and Uppercase have given me even further encouragement. It seems that the scope is endless, but I feel I now have a very firm basis on which to start.
I have so many more questions, but I think these will take a more specific shape once I start piecing a wardrobe together. I intend to start with, obviously, winter garments, but I desperately need a suit. Is it possible to pair the grey flannel suit trousers with a tweed coat or are these usually of a broadly different style?
Michael, I would be interested to know what style of ¾ coat you mean and in what type of cloth? A waterproof coat, such as a Barbour, is almost a must here. I need to be able to throw something on over whatever I am wearing to pop outside to deal with dogs, horses etc and a Barbour is great for that (and yes, they do make raincoats for dogs
). But for something slightly smarter, the ¾ sounds interesting. I think my priority is an outfit based around a tweed sports coat. I could happily wear this style everyday throughout autumn, winter and spring and it would actually work very well for certain client meetings locally. I imagine a plain, knitted silk tie works well with a tweed too? I am also keen on dark coloured wool v neck sweaters which can be very useful over a shirt. They always seem work well under a tweed?
I would like a bespoke tweed coat, but perhaps RTW cords, as I fancy I get through trousers very quickly. Any recommendations on a good source of RTW cords?
PorteusMichael, I would be interested to know what style of ¾ coat you mean and in what type of cloth? A waterproof coat, such as a Barbour, is almost a must here. I need to be able to throw something on over whatever I am wearing to pop outside to deal with dogs, horses etc and a Barbour is great for that (and yes, they do make raincoats for dogs
Take a look here to see the 3/4 coat in 750 gms Brora tweed. In the meantime I will try and snap a new picture of it for you.
http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... =34&t=8978
I am planning on making another in 1000 gms whipcord because the cloth sheds water so very well.
I would have to advise against the Barbour coat or any waxed cotton facsimile. They do not breathe and if you engage in even minimal amounts of exercise you will roast in the coat. And once your clothes are entirely saturated in perspiration and you take the Barbour off, you will get one heck of a chill. A good tweed or whipcord is equally water resistant, but wool breathes, keeps you warm without the Barbour basting effect.
You might take a look at the Chrysalis type English shooting coat, but if you have the idea to go bespoke you can avoid a bit of the country squire look it imparts by making your own design 3/4.
There are some posts on the LL with resources for good RTW trousers.
Welcome to the LL
Michael Alden
This is the first time I have read anyone post the truth about this incredibly poorly designed piece of clothing.I would have to advise against the Barbour coat or any waxed cotton facsimile. They do not breathe and if you engage in even minimal amounts of exercise you will roast in the coat. And once your clothes are entirely saturated in perspiration and you take the Barbour off, you will get one heck of a chill.
Indeed, waxed cotton does not breathe and because of that, the wearer inevitably ends up feeling clammy after the least bit of activity. Followed by a chill as one sits around afterward in damp clothing. Very true.
Why waxed coats are so popular, I don't know. But they do seem to be a staple for many. Perhaps they are endearing because you can uncaringly get them muddy and easily wash them off. Perhaps they are useful items for strolling in the cities while wanting to feel country. I don't know. But for anyone who actually plans to do any physicial work wearing wax, my experience is that they are a highly impractical item.
As for the British field coat, the jury is out but it seems promising, if excessively heavy weight; that's why they have straps built in to enable you to take off the coat if you overheat but still carry it on your back like a backpack. But the tweed cloth is nice on these field coats and is certain to appeal to anyone who enjoys tweed but wants a working field coat, with plenty of pockets providing good warmth.
Porteus, if you're in the UK, no one does moderately priced country clothing as well as the British. Visit your local field sports store and you should find what you are looking for. Or Cordings in London. Don't spend too much money. It's just wrong.
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DD MacDonald
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:51 pm
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The barbour is a truly classic look and back when, it was pretty state of the art for weather proofing.
But, Michael is right, it wears cold. The wax impregnated cloth is stiff when cold and it doesn't breath, trapping in moisture.
The new generation of barbour jackets in "performance" or "technical" cloth do work really well, they just don't look or feel right. They don't have the corduroy collar and the color is more olive than green. This actually makes them better as field garments and follows the modern europen tradition set by Musto, Barretta, etc, but some real "Englishness" has been lost. The best field jacket that i have for rain is a ventile cloth version of Barbour's Beaufort jacket. Mine was made by Orvis when they actually bought decent things from the English mills and Barbour made a version for a couple of years.
Ventile, as i understand it, was commissioned by Churchill during WWII (or came into wider use) when it was noticed how many pilots were being lost in the North Sea. The cloth is water resistant by virtue of its construction. Although a cotton, the yarns are twisted and seriously densely woven. I don't really know the details here but can tell you that it's almost impossible to pass a needle through it. If you ever need to effect a repair, find an awl, a hotel sewing kit will not take you very far. I've worn the jacket four days straight in the Welsh rain chasing woodcock and kept dry enough. The goretex or membrane lined tweeds will keep you dry, but the cloth can soak up a lot of moisture and get very heavy
But the virtue of the waxed barbour? You can't kill them and the company will repair them. I bought mine in 1987 in Corby england. Don't ask. I wore it straight through college and a couple of years graduate school in Cambridge, its walked all over the grouse coverts of Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota, travelled to Spain and England and still going strong. It's been ridden hard and put up wet more times than I can remember. It's been repaired by the factory in the US at least three times - the pocket bottoms, the cuffs and entire bottom edge of the jacket, a tear in the game pocket, the zipper, a couple of the snaps and the underside of the arms from the wrist to the elbow have been toally rebult. The jacket probably only has about 60% of the original cloth. the jacket was long taken over by my wife and daughters in the Virginia coutryside. I think that one of our cats even had a litter of kittens in the jacket.
So for me, lots of history with the jacket. But rather than face the decision to buy a new one or not, I've kept the old one going and bought other jackets.
But, Michael is right, it wears cold. The wax impregnated cloth is stiff when cold and it doesn't breath, trapping in moisture.
The new generation of barbour jackets in "performance" or "technical" cloth do work really well, they just don't look or feel right. They don't have the corduroy collar and the color is more olive than green. This actually makes them better as field garments and follows the modern europen tradition set by Musto, Barretta, etc, but some real "Englishness" has been lost. The best field jacket that i have for rain is a ventile cloth version of Barbour's Beaufort jacket. Mine was made by Orvis when they actually bought decent things from the English mills and Barbour made a version for a couple of years.
Ventile, as i understand it, was commissioned by Churchill during WWII (or came into wider use) when it was noticed how many pilots were being lost in the North Sea. The cloth is water resistant by virtue of its construction. Although a cotton, the yarns are twisted and seriously densely woven. I don't really know the details here but can tell you that it's almost impossible to pass a needle through it. If you ever need to effect a repair, find an awl, a hotel sewing kit will not take you very far. I've worn the jacket four days straight in the Welsh rain chasing woodcock and kept dry enough. The goretex or membrane lined tweeds will keep you dry, but the cloth can soak up a lot of moisture and get very heavy
But the virtue of the waxed barbour? You can't kill them and the company will repair them. I bought mine in 1987 in Corby england. Don't ask. I wore it straight through college and a couple of years graduate school in Cambridge, its walked all over the grouse coverts of Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota, travelled to Spain and England and still going strong. It's been ridden hard and put up wet more times than I can remember. It's been repaired by the factory in the US at least three times - the pocket bottoms, the cuffs and entire bottom edge of the jacket, a tear in the game pocket, the zipper, a couple of the snaps and the underside of the arms from the wrist to the elbow have been toally rebult. The jacket probably only has about 60% of the original cloth. the jacket was long taken over by my wife and daughters in the Virginia coutryside. I think that one of our cats even had a litter of kittens in the jacket.
So for me, lots of history with the jacket. But rather than face the decision to buy a new one or not, I've kept the old one going and bought other jackets.
Was glad to read this account by someone who has used his Barbour extensively in the field, DDM.
I'm not familiar with the Barbour ventile cloth and will look for it. This is good to know. It's still being made?
Indeed, Barbour is a classic look and has a reputation for standing behind their product. I just find the claminess and lack of insulation from cotton uncomfortable; the waxed cotton is a bit better when a quilted jacket is worn underneath.
As for the tweed field coats, I would guess, as you wrote that the tweed soaks up alot of rain and becomes very heavy even though one is protected from the wet by the goretex inner lining. I haven't yet subjected mine to a drenching rain....
DDM, you seem to do alot of hunting and field work. What coat would you buy for yourself today given your outdoor pursuits?
I'm not familiar with the Barbour ventile cloth and will look for it. This is good to know. It's still being made?
Indeed, Barbour is a classic look and has a reputation for standing behind their product. I just find the claminess and lack of insulation from cotton uncomfortable; the waxed cotton is a bit better when a quilted jacket is worn underneath.
As for the tweed field coats, I would guess, as you wrote that the tweed soaks up alot of rain and becomes very heavy even though one is protected from the wet by the goretex inner lining. I haven't yet subjected mine to a drenching rain....
DDM, you seem to do alot of hunting and field work. What coat would you buy for yourself today given your outdoor pursuits?
DDM
My own collection of Barbour is a bit older than yours and is still in perfect working order. This is due to the fact that the coats have been used mainly for relaxing walks as opposed to more adventurous wear for the reasons stated above.
I find heavy tweed treated with Teflon to be a perfect solution to outdoors wear. Even after a drenching downpour, a good shake of the warm cloth sends the beaded moisture back into the environment where it belongs. I have never had the need for Goretex. (If there are enough interested sportsmen in our ranks, we could do a Teflon tweed in the clothclub.)
The woodcock season is due to begin here in a few weeks. The birds pass through Italy in abundant numbers and it so happens that the streams and large trees on my property attract them. What a pleasure to pull the 20 ga off the wall and be hunting after a few minutes walk! On the other hand, there are no grouse to be found here as they have been hunted to extinction.
Cheers
Michael
My own collection of Barbour is a bit older than yours and is still in perfect working order. This is due to the fact that the coats have been used mainly for relaxing walks as opposed to more adventurous wear for the reasons stated above.
I find heavy tweed treated with Teflon to be a perfect solution to outdoors wear. Even after a drenching downpour, a good shake of the warm cloth sends the beaded moisture back into the environment where it belongs. I have never had the need for Goretex. (If there are enough interested sportsmen in our ranks, we could do a Teflon tweed in the clothclub.)
The woodcock season is due to begin here in a few weeks. The birds pass through Italy in abundant numbers and it so happens that the streams and large trees on my property attract them. What a pleasure to pull the 20 ga off the wall and be hunting after a few minutes walk! On the other hand, there are no grouse to be found here as they have been hunted to extinction.
Cheers
Michael
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Simon A
Ventile is indeed terrific stuff, a great British invention. I have an Islay tweed field coat with a Ventile interlining and it has had very heavy wear over the past 13 years, in weather as cold as -20 C and in heavy rainstorms, and has kept me comfortable throughout. I would guess Ventile is not so easy to sew, and if using it as an interlining in a field coat, one probably needs to either seal seams or locate the seams off the shoulder (where leaks in waterproof garments occur most). It is very effective at keeping wind out and so one can wear lighter clothing beneath the coat in most conditions. It breathes quite well. I think it is overkill for the average garment; unless you are planning twelve-hour hunting trips in inclement weather or similar, a Teflon-treated tweed would be adequate for most applications.
The manufacurer: http://www.ventile.co.uk
The manufacurer: http://www.ventile.co.uk
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storeynicholas
Ventile cotton was invented to make firehoses in WWII when they ran short of linen. Later on they adapted it for the flying suits on the pilots that escorted the North Atlantic convoys; they flew superannuated fighters (often Hurricanes) and when they ran out of fuel, they were ditched, often in freezing water. Ventile helped to keep the water out until the pilots were picked up by the ships in the convoy. So always think of it kindly.
Indeed, relaxing walks (with the dogs) was what I had in mind when I recommended it. The Barbour is fine in Spring and Autumn in temperatures down to 5-8 deg. C, under rain. If it's warmer than 15 deg. C (especially on a sunny day) you will cook even if you sit on bench in a park. If it's below 0 C, you will freeze in it - but you can exend its use to slightly subzero temperatures when it snows (so no colder than -2 or so) if you wear it with a zipped winter lining.alden wrote:My own collection of Barbour is a bit older than yours and is still in perfect working order. This is due to the fact that the coats have been used mainly for relaxing walks as opposed to more adventurous wear for the reasons stated above.
However, my brother (who is a great rider) has an almost ankle-long horse riding version that he uses when it rains, and he never complained about it.
Porteus, you can wear flannel trousers with tweed coats very well, just make sure you have two pairs of trousers made to your suit, because flannel (even if it is of the worsted kind, rather than non-woven) won't last as long as a Cheviot jacket. Plain coloured knitted silk ties, or silk ascots work fine with flannel and tweed. V-neck sweaters, too - if you can find the variety with a deep enough V and not too long.
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DD MacDonald
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:51 pm
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Good question - what kind of jacket would I buy? The answer depends on the pursuit. it's one thing to be out and get rained on, it's another to know that you're going to face a drenching.
Wool is fantastic, and treated as Michael identifies, is very effective at keeping the rain out and has the added benefit of retaining its thermal properties when wet. Cotton on the other hand does not, it's heavy and when its wet it steals heat. Hikers and climbers have a two word expression for this "cotton kills".
Grouse and woodcock shooting in the states is done in some of the densest cover imaginable, briars, trees and brush can be very hard on cloth. I've not ventured out with a hartwist or a thornproof cloth, I'd fear it's shredding. In addition, the need for safety orange (both practical and required if sartorially questionable) would rob some of the effect. Still, wool would survive and prosper with great patination. I tend to wear an orange vest or waistcoat that has the advantge of holding shells and birds - orvis, barretta, lewis creek, filson all make good ones. This shooting is fair-weather sport, done at 0-10 degress C. Light layers are your friend. It its raining or looks like it, the barbour works very well provided that you layer with woll or fleeses under it.
At the end of a cover and returned to the car, a loose quilted moleskin jacket or a woolen chrysalis like Michael describes is welcome.
Travelling abroad, and i admit to having less sport recently which is depressing, is always welcome. There is no orange, the shooting is naturally dressier because it is often produced for the guns whether it is walked up or driven. Give me tweed all the time and perhaps a light ventile or one of the modern barbour jackets as a top if it rains.
I've got to run and will get some more thoughts here. I think that rather than the shooting-coat, the real question is about a walking coat which will be like a field coat but less pockets and elements. Shorter than a 3/4 coat or a car coat and longer than a barn jacket. Barbour makes a quilted moleskin jacket called Lidesdale which has the right design but some of the linings and edgings that they've used recently are horrible.
Michael shoot some woodcock and have a great dinner, cook them rare and open the best bottle of red you can put your hands on.
DDM
Wool is fantastic, and treated as Michael identifies, is very effective at keeping the rain out and has the added benefit of retaining its thermal properties when wet. Cotton on the other hand does not, it's heavy and when its wet it steals heat. Hikers and climbers have a two word expression for this "cotton kills".
Grouse and woodcock shooting in the states is done in some of the densest cover imaginable, briars, trees and brush can be very hard on cloth. I've not ventured out with a hartwist or a thornproof cloth, I'd fear it's shredding. In addition, the need for safety orange (both practical and required if sartorially questionable) would rob some of the effect. Still, wool would survive and prosper with great patination. I tend to wear an orange vest or waistcoat that has the advantge of holding shells and birds - orvis, barretta, lewis creek, filson all make good ones. This shooting is fair-weather sport, done at 0-10 degress C. Light layers are your friend. It its raining or looks like it, the barbour works very well provided that you layer with woll or fleeses under it.
At the end of a cover and returned to the car, a loose quilted moleskin jacket or a woolen chrysalis like Michael describes is welcome.
Travelling abroad, and i admit to having less sport recently which is depressing, is always welcome. There is no orange, the shooting is naturally dressier because it is often produced for the guns whether it is walked up or driven. Give me tweed all the time and perhaps a light ventile or one of the modern barbour jackets as a top if it rains.
I've got to run and will get some more thoughts here. I think that rather than the shooting-coat, the real question is about a walking coat which will be like a field coat but less pockets and elements. Shorter than a 3/4 coat or a car coat and longer than a barn jacket. Barbour makes a quilted moleskin jacket called Lidesdale which has the right design but some of the linings and edgings that they've used recently are horrible.
Michael shoot some woodcock and have a great dinner, cook them rare and open the best bottle of red you can put your hands on.
DDM
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