The London Lounge

Posted: **Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:03 pm**

I know it's been asked before, but times do change...

I'm looking for a rtw db suit in a dark/mid grey, preferably in a herringbone or at least a fabric with some texture. Can anyone recommend a good rtw tailor in London? Huntsman have a db suit in a birdseye fabric, but I'm not quite sure I like it, and they seem to charge significantly more than other tailors.
Ede and Ravenscroft have a lovely db suit, but it's in a wool/cashmere flannel, and I'm not sure that would stand up to business use.

Does anyone have any opinions on rtw in London?
Thank you

Posted: **Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:11 pm**

If I may ask - why do you want RTW from a tailor?

Posted: **Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:27 pm**

Cost. And that I need another business suit fairly quickly.

Posted: **Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:44 pm**

Then I suppose buying RTW from a tailor's shop is not the most cost-effective option. Let's see if anyone has ideas.

Posted: **Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:44 pm**

I don't buy RTW suits any more, but only because I can't get any to fit! How about Gieves, Dunhill, Daks, New & Lingwood, T&A?

Posted: **Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:13 pm**

If I were you, I would wait for the inevitable sales to start in December. That is not so far away.

Sales used to start in January but in a poor retailing environment they will start earlier.

I would then go to somewhere where you feel comfortable, such as Ede and Ravenscroft, and buy a suit at a much reduced price. Not all their suits are flannel or flannel mix.

When I had a bit more cash, I would move up to MTM and from there to bespoke.

Chelsea

Posted: **Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:48 pm**

I read today (on Finch's Quarterly Review), that the E Tautz name has been revived under Norton's - to sell RTW at between £2000-£3000. I am not sure where this must put the cost of Norton's fully bespoke now. But if Joshua Byrne (apprenticed to a coat maker at A&S and then to Arthur Catchpole at Henry Poole), can, with his background, address and premises (in the Hanover Square area, once populated by such great firms as Lesley & Roberts, Johns & Pegg and Davies & Son), supply a fully bespoke three piece suit easily to rival this cost, what on earth are youngsters thinking of in paying (if they do), the same amount for an unadjusted RTW? The same reasoning applies, a fortiori in relation to the fully bespoke work of other good firms, such as Stephen Hitchcock on 'the Row'; Thomas Mahon from 'the Row' and Connock & Lockie, off 'the Row'. Advice to youngsters is needed, before this sort of thing gets out of hand; because there is all the difference in the world between the arguments for and against having cheaper RTW sales indirectly to subsidize the continuance of the bespoke industry, on the one hand, and the arguments (if any) reasonably to support the promotion of RTW sales that are the same cost as fully bespoke. This is because, in the the modern age, youngsters are increasingly taught to equate expenditure with merit and to revere bloody, bloody branding.
NJS.

Posted: **Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:59 pm**

That does sound rather steep! I would have thought that £6-800 would be the very most that one would pay for rtw, anywhere that wasn't 'designer'... Waiting for the sales is a good idea in any case, being only two months or so away.

Posted: **Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:07 pm**

YoungLawyer wrote:That does sound rather steep! I would have thought that £6-800 would be the very most that one would pay for rtw, anywhere that wasn't 'designer'... Waiting for the sales is a good idea in any case, being only two months or so away.

I kept editing - in a fury - so you might have missed the final offering but, for goodness' sake, don't go beyond £600 for a RTW suit and there are many small, unfamous, provincial tailors that friends of mine use, who produce workmanlike bespoke for that. I have to say that you trust to luck for the cut sometimes but, at these rates, and examining examples of previous work, they are worth a punt. Frankly, though, look around for off-the-Row London and suburban tailors who can do you something for £1000-£1200 - and remember that one of Ian Fleming's favourite suits was, apparently, from a then '50 shilling' tailor.
NJS

Posted: **Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:02 am**

I read today (on Finch's Quarterly Review), that the E Tautz name has been revived under Norton's - to sell RTW at between £2000-£3000. I am not sure where this must put the cost of Norton's fully bespoke now. But if Joshua Byrne (apprenticed to a coat maker at A&S and then to Arthur Catchpole at Henry Poole), can, with his background, address and premises (in the Hanover Square area, once populated by such great firms as Lesley & Roberts, Johns & Pegg and Davies & Son), supply a fully bespoke three piece suit easily to rival this cost, what on earth are youngsters thinking of in paying (if they do), the same amount for an unadjusted RTW? The same reasoning applies, a fortiori in relation to the fully bespoke work of other good firms, such as Stephen Hitchcock on 'the Row'; Thomas Mahon from 'the Row' and Connock & Lockie, off 'the Row'. Advice to youngsters is needed, before this sort of thing gets out of hand; because there is all the difference in the world between the arguments for and against having cheaper RTW sales indirectly to subsidize the continuance of the bespoke industry, on the one hand, and the arguments (if any) reasonably to support the promotion of RTW sales that are the same cost as fully bespoke. This is because, in the the modern age, youngsters are increasingly taught to equate expenditure with merit and to revere bloody, bloody branding.
NJS.

It does depend in part on the cloth used. My own tailor was recently asked to make up a suit from super 250s, for which the price (I'm told) was £12,500. The client apparently ordered 5... At that price point, the cost of RTW would probably be around the 2-3k level. And the likes of Kiton and Brioni are already charging this for their suits.

Still, I agree that spending anywhere near this figure on RTW is absurd.

Posted: **Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:53 am**

The E. Tautz stuff is now on sale at the Matches boutique in Marylebone HS, at Harrods/Harvey Nichols and in Japan. I learned this on seeing an attractive bow tie on a dummy in the window of Matches and popping in to take a closer look. And I learned that the overpricing doesn't just apply to the suits - this bow tie was priced at £80, which I consider way over the top. I wonder if Nortons have bitten off more than they can chew here.

Posted: **Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:08 am**

I agree that it does depend, in part, on the cloth used - but, frankly, anyone who spends £12,500 on a suit needs to spend more on his analyst

Moreover, anyone who spends £2,000-£3,000 on RTW, mainly because of the cloth used, should have an analyst and a social worker. I am not sure that it is just the cost of the cloth though, as they are using the names of famous former customers (such as Churchill), both to confer (spurious) validation on boutique goods and as selling points to the utterly gullible. Moreover, they overlook the point that the decent the tailors in London, in Churchill's time, were more remarkable if he hadn't been there.

The thing that I cannot understand is: what have these young customers found to do in life that gives them disposable income to spend on expensive clothes when they have lost the sense that they were born with?

NJS

Posted: **Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:42 am**

NJS, I agree.

I think the answer to the mystery might be 'instant gratification.' In such a hurry to go somewhere, wherever it is...

s

Posted: **Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:41 am**

shredder wrote:NJS, I agree.

I think the answer to the mystery might be 'instant gratification.' In such a hurry to go somewhere, wherever it is...

s

But that is only part of it - the fellow spending £12,500 a suit on several suits (however rich he is) is just the type of man who is responsible for most of the bloodiest revolts and destruction in the history of mankind - a Nero; a Batista of a man. It sounds as though he has gone to his tailors and, regardless of every other consideration, just said "What's the most expensive cloth you can sell me?" - and, apart from everything else, it turns out that it is stocking material.

Presumably, he is bespeaking these suits so that everyone will know just how rich he is and how much he loves himself. I am not a socialist but I can certainly see whence socialism springs in the face of such gross self-indulgence.

He should be made to go and stand in one of these suits, in some desert place, in the midst of children in their mother's arms that are too tired and too hot and too hungry, and too thirsty and too weak to blink the flies away. He should be made to keep his eyes open for long enough to weep - not for them so much -as for himself - and I hope that he gets this message. If he does, maybe he'd like to spend an equivalent amount (£62,500) on helping to deal with this:
http://www.wateraid.org/uk/what_we_do/s ... efault.asp

Apparently, somewhere in the world a child dies every twenty seconds owing to a lack of clean water.

NJS.

Posted: **Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:43 am**

storeynicholas wrote: Apparently, somewhere in the world a child dies every twenty seconds owing to a lack of clean water.

NJS.

I surmise that money is only part of the problem. Political and bureaucratic ineptitude and corruption are huge impediments in many instances. India springs to mind as an example, and I am not sure if deficiency of funds is a plausible excuse for them in recent years... That said, I sense that we might be precariously positioned on a slippery slope with this tangent...

s

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