The London Lounge

Hello:

I previously posted a question that asked a bit too much and I apologize for that. Please allow me to try again--little by little--as I am gradually entering the market for a bespoke tailor.

This is a question about tie knots. By far, the most elegant tie knot I have seen is a wide knot of the sort pictured below.

http://www.science.co.il/People/Ronald- ... n-1985.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ropped.jpg

Both men are considered examples of well-dressed individuals by many observers. And it seems that their tie knots, which I believe are the same, appear thick enough to remain in place throughout the day and do not sag or loosen (e.g., the part of the tie beneath the collar becomes visible). What kind of knot--Windsor, four-in-hand etc.--are these and what other suggestions, beyond what is commonly known, can LL members offer me about how to achieve these knots? For example, does being able to tie this knot have anything to do with the kind of silk the tie is made of (i.e., the thicker kind one sees on Brooks Brothers rep ties vs. the thinner, apparently higher quality seen in their more expensive ties--the type of silk on a Hermes tie)?

One thing I notice about both men is that they both have large, apparently stiff, classic (Ainsley?) collars that would not move if they moved their heads widely. The only ready-to-wear shirt I've seen that offers these collars--in terms of stiffness--are those by Thomas Pink. Would the collar be "involved" with the knot here? How does one tie the tie with this collar--one that I don't think can be turned up as on a basic, ready-made shirt--in mind?

Many thanks for any assistance!

You can turn them up. I generally turn my collars up with the button undone so it won't crumple. Then, once the collar is turned down around the tie, I fasten the top button. It saves some time.

The knots themselves are either half-Windsor or Windsor knots. I don't favour the second because it's far too big and ostentatious for me, though it may work with some unlined vintage ties.

Anonymous wrote:And it seems that their tie knots, which I believe are the same, appear thick enough to remain in place throughout the day and do not sag or loosen (e.g., the part of the tie beneath the collar becomes visible).
....
One thing I notice about both men is that they both have large, apparently stiff, classic (Ainsley?) collars that would not move if they moved their heads widely.

The first thing I would say to both of these questions is to check the fit of the garment. Without proper collar fit (too small) I can see both the issues you mentioned happening. Otherwise, neither seems likely unless I have misunderstood.

I've tried several different knots with many different ties and have not had a problem of any coming loose or sagging except at the end of a very long day full of vigorous activity. If a tie knot should loosen or sag after a short while, I would say it is a problem of the tightness of the tie knot and not the actual knot type. All knots I know of for long ties are some form of slip knot, allowing adjustment of the length of the tie around the collar. If the tie slackens, the tie knot is not tight enough to prevent the slipping. Should this happen, pull the knot tighter (don't just adjust the tie to take up the slack). I have never, and have never needed to, pull the knot so tight that it cannot move. Doing so would likely damage the tie.

My knowledge of shirts and collars leads to a similar conclusion on your second question. I don't quite understand what you mean by the collar not moving even if you move your head. Do you mean the collar as a whole not moving in relation to the shirt? If this is the case, there will always be some movement of the collar since the shirt and collar are not entirely stiff.

If the question is a matter of the collar not bending over, keeping straight sides (though necessarily moving if the neck is bent from the vertical axis), then that is a matter of cloth stiffness. To address this issue, iron the collar with more starch.

pbc