The London Lounge

I have been quoted £550 for a pair of MTO Crockett & Jones, handgrade line (Welbeck). I would like a different color and a different design for the brogueing on the toecap.

May I ask whether that is a reasonable price?

For that price, you can also get Edward Greens. Gaziano & Girling are not too far away, and by reputation are a little higher in quality. Make sure you really like the fit of the CJs before biting.

Anonymous wrote:For that price, you can also get Edward Greens. Gaziano & Girling are not too far away, and by reputation are a little higher in quality. Make sure you really like the fit of the CJs before biting.

For Edward Green G&G I assume you mean ready to wear respectively bench made shoes?

For EG, there is a thread on styleforum, but their website hardly contains any information about the available designs (http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=18298). For G&G I find it hard to imagine that they offer only 8 models. Any information would be gladly received.

I have found the thread linked to by Manton:
http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php? ... tcount=651

Almost entirely unreasonable. The aforementioned EG and G&G both offer similar, but noticeably better made, 3/4 brogues for the same or less, with a choice of better leathers, broguing, and IMO more elegant lasts that may or may not fit you better than the C&J 337.

Anonymous wrote:IMay I ask whether that is a reasonable price?

It just depends from whose view-point you define ‘reasonable’. Crockett & Jones is a very large manufacturer and they just don’t want to be bothered with orders for individual pairs (I believe six pairs, which can even be of different sizes, is their minimum run). So they price them high, hoping the potential customer will go away, without appearing unhelpful. As far as C & J is concerned, a very reasonable attitude.

As others have pointed out, try Edward Green or Gaziano & Girling (I count 33 styles on their website):
http://www.gazianogirling.com/

EG has plans to launch later this year the “Top Drawer” Service. This is supposed to be a premium made-to-order service. I don’t have any more details (neither has the London store).

Contact the London store and get the full catalogue. That features about fifty different models, although they can even do more styles as 'Special Order'.

Rolf

The hand made to measure Gomez shoes aren't much more and they are also CJ. If I were in Europe that would be my choice.

i would go with G&G they styling is a fresher take on the classics

I strongly recommend against MTM EG. I have an ongoing nightmare now some 18 months in duration, not satisfactorily resolved. They have positioned themselves as a retailer without a retailer's responsibility. Nil service after the sale, dreadful customer service, hysterical management, and now dangerously over priced MTM program.

This is a dreadful outfit to experiment with. Effectively anything you want outside of black, is priced as MTM. Pony show measuring and sleight of hand fitting. My favorite piece of marketing is the tag along shoe shiner and scruffy PR guy. A strong argument against dealing with 'salesmen.' G&G deserves a go instead.

I think many members would be in a better position to appreciate your issues with EG -which sound serious indeed - if you were to identify yourself by your member name, rather than posting anonymously.

-- Huzir

It is after all, an anonymous question and answer section.

I'll register a contrary view to that expressed above about EG MTO. I have used their program for a number of years with increasingly better results each time. Whether its shoes, shirts, or suits I have consistently found that the process changes my tastes and expectations of fit and comfort. We do not often talk about it, but you should expect to buy about 3 suits or jackets - from the same tailor - before you get it right. Once you understand bespoke, you will appreciate what is syle from a new tailor and what is poor fit or workmanship. It is a process of working to the middle. If you listen to the most experienced on this board you will hear that bespoke is a relationship and that you need to work with a firm on a garment until it is right.

When it comes to shoes, it is not as easy to remake them and if the company gives you what you asked for, its your issue. I was measured by Susie Jones at an EG trunk sale in Washington DC and got a near perfect pair of Malverns. My measurements entailed both changing width (D from E) and using a fitting across the widest part of last to better proxy my foot. The result was great everywhere except across the instep. On the 888 last for my foot they needed to be ordered "lace open" which they were not. The shoes close across my foot with the lace fittings touching. Some might find this perfection, I'd like a little more opening both aesthetically and practically as our feet swell and shrink a bit all the time.

On the sucess of these I ordered a pair of monks (888) and a plain black cap toe on the 606. The Monks are a dream but the captoe did not come lace open/or the 606 is larger in that area with the result that the shoe did not sufficiently close on my left foot leaving my heel with some play and were not really comfortable. I had the opportunity to be in London and met with Susie to discuss the situation. A fitting in the sole of the shoe to take up space was not effective because the shoe fit closely everywhere else. In the end Susie took the shoes back to the factory and re-lasted/resoled them to draw them in a bit at the instep. The result is that the shoes now fit very well. Not perfect as the facings touch, but my foot if fully supported and they fit better than anything else I could find for the price and the time.

But the story actually gets better. In a discussion of my feet it was determined that the 808 last is the closest to the shape of my feet and subsequent orders have been on that last. The results are great.

If I could wish one thing at Greens it would be a better mid-range brown. The dark oak is an awefully useful shade, but it is a bit dark and sometimes I feel a bit dead. Chestnut is an orange, Acorn a yellow, Burnt pine a cool greenish, and dark oak a dark chocolate. Each of these have their place but are not the universal brown for which I have been looking .

Edwardian is a great caramel color, but lighter than a mid brown. The Malverns that I ordered were in a "not so dark dark oak" and they came out wonderfully. A pair of Holborns ordered the same way came out a bit darker than hoped. After discussion with the Shop about color, I've ordered a pair of Rye's in a "dark edwardian". Will the color come out different than I expect? Sure, I have no doubt. I'll probably have terrible buyer's remose when I open the box, who knows? But darkening is easy and the color will likely drift into exactly the zone that I want from wear and usage.

So I for one am a great fan of Greens. For one thing I have dialed in a fit that is wonderful and have had good support and interaction from the Company. Sure not as much as we communication-obsesssed Americans would like, but we got to relax.

As I search for the perfect brown which I am sure doesn't exist I am ammassing a spectrum of browns from the light to the dark in various city and country styles. Now, that's universal.

My advice is that you will get the best service through the shop in London. Awkward sure, but it's honest.

Now, anyone know how to lighten a pair of Dark Oaks?

For the record,
DDM

I'll register a contrary view to that expressed above about EG MTO. I have used their program for a number of years with increasingly better results each time. Whether its shoes, shirts, or suits I have consistently found that the process changes my tastes and expectations of fit and comfort. We do not often talk about it, but you should expect to buy about 3 suits or jackets - from the same tailor - before you get it right. Once you understand bespoke, you will appreciate what is syle from a new tailor and what is poor fit or workmanship. It is a process of working to the middle. If you listen to the most experienced on this board you will hear that bespoke is a relationship and that you need to work with a firm on a garment until it is right.

When it comes to shoes, it is not as easy to remake them and if the company gives you what you asked for, its your issue. I was measured by Susie Jones at an EG trunk sale in Washington DC and got a near perfect pair of Malverns. My measurements entailed both changing width (D from E) and using a fitting across the widest part of last to better proxy my foot. The result was great everywhere except across the instep. On the 888 last for my foot they needed to be ordered "lace open" which they were not. The shoes close across my foot with the lace fittings touching. Some might find this perfection, I'd like a little more opening both aesthetically and practically as our feet swell and shrink a bit all the time.

On the sucess of these I ordered a pair of monks (888) and a plain black cap toe on the 606. The Monks are a dream but the captoe did not come lace open/or the 606 is larger in that area with the result that the shoe did not sufficiently close on my left foot leaving my heel with some play and were not really comfortable. I had the opportunity to be in London and met with Susie to discuss the situation. A fitting in the sole of the shoe to take up space was not effective because the shoe fit closely everywhere else. In the end Susie took the shoes back to the factory and re-lasted/resoled them to draw them in a bit at the instep. The result is that the shoes now fit very well. Not perfect as the facings touch, but my foot if fully supported and they fit better than anything else I could find for the price and the time.

But the story actually gets better. In a discussion of my feet it was determined that the 808 last is the closest to the shape of my feet and subsequent orders have been on that last. The results are great.

If I could wish one thing at Greens it would be a better mid-range brown. The dark oak is an awefully useful shade, but it is a bit dark and sometimes I feel a bit dead. Chestnut is an orange, Acorn a yellow, Burnt pine a cool greenish, and dark oak a dark chocolate. Each of these have their place but are not the universal brown for which I have been looking .

Edwardian is a great caramel color, but lighter than a mid brown. The Malverns that I ordered were in a "not so dark dark oak" and they came out wonderfully. A pair of Holborns ordered the same way came out a bit darker than hoped. After discussion with the Shop about color, I've ordered a pair of Rye's in a "dark edwardian". Will the color come out different than I expect? Sure, I have no doubt. I'll probably have terrible buyer's remose when I open the box, who knows? But darkening is easy and the color will likely drift into exactly the zone that I want from wear and usage.

So I for one am a great fan of Greens. For one thing I have dialed in a fit that is wonderful and have had good support and interaction from the Company. Sure not as much as we communication-obsesssed Americans would like, but we got to relax.

As I search for the perfect brown which I am sure doesn't exist I am ammassing a spectrum of browns from the light to the dark in various city and country styles. Now, that's universal.

My advice is that you will get the best service through the shop in London. Awkward sure, but it's honest.

Now, anyone know how to lighten a pair of Dark Oaks?

For the record,
DDM