Balance

[Guest]

What does it refer to in a coat?


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[Guest]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the meaning of the term is not so universally fixed as we would like. EIther that, or it is frequently misused by people who talk about suits and tailoring. Adding to the confusion is the likely fact that, even if balance has a precise meaning, the techniques for getting there may be disputed or at least vary.

I consider a firm grip on this subject to be one of the larger gaps in my knowledge of bespoke tailoring and I would love to learn more.

Consider this a special plea for contributions from the tailor members of our community. What does it mean to you? How do you get there?

I would be remiss, though, if I didn’t point out this post by Tutee as a great place to start.

[Guest]

I take back what I wrote immediately above. I think the description in Tutee’s article is pretty consistent with 80% of the way I have heard the term used. Which means that I have likely mis-characterized the 20% or so that constitutes differing usage. It represent not so much a difference of opinion, but rather an unfounded opinion.

Carry on.

[Guest]

OK. Take your jackets off and turn sideways to a full length mirror. If possible stand as naturally as you can during this exercise. Some of you will stand with their shoulder back and, in what tailors term, an erect posture. This will have the effect of throwing the coat up at the front, causing a shortness, and long at the back where it will lay on your rear end. So the balance of this coat is off because there are pulls at the front and that back instead of laying straight.

Most of you attempting this excercise will have somewhat of a round back causing a coat to swing outwards at the back and the bottom of the fronts to open. So, again, the balance is off because there are pulls on the coat in the opposite direction to the description above.

When a coat is perfectly balanced it sits on the shoulders and around the neck with gaps or tugs, it does not sit on the rear end of the client and does not swing away either. To me, the balance of a coat, governed by the posture of the client, is FAR more important than the measurements themselves. After, but also during, taking measurements, I spend as much time on checking posture and shoulder angles as I do on the measurements themselves. This IS the secret t a good fitting and balanced coat. It is also what confuses the heck out of travelling salemen in the business who have visions of greatness, are good on details and chatting to clients, and are even good on measurments, but wonder why they spend so much on alterations after a suit is finished. It's what separates the men from the boys in our industry.

Hope this ramble helps.

Leonard

[Guest]

If I may add a layman's perspective to the article Tutee posted and to Leonard's explanation above:

The simplest way to think about balance is that it is the relative lengths of the two sides of the coat and the front and back of the coat. If they are equal, then the coat is "balanced." Right?

Wrong. As Leonard notes above, the human body has contours, and different bodies are contoured differently. Simply getting the relative lengths equal may or may not result in a coat that LOOKS equally balanced and that behaves in a balanced way. Sometimes addtional length is needed to work around contours. "Salient blades" or a rounded back require more length in back relative to the fronts. But not merely length: extra length alone won't do the trick. That length has to get around the blades, not just hang over and past them. The finished, balanced coat should LOOK as if the front and back are of equal length, even though the back is necessarily longer. Correct balance also assures a smooth back and properly closing vents. Leonard has masterfully described what happens when a back is too short or too long.

The concept also applies to the sides of a coat. To cite only one issue: many men have one shoulder lower than the other. If the left and right fronts are of equal length, then the bottoms of the coat will not line up; one will be lower than the other. Also, the buttons and buttonholes will likely be off. Proper balance requires that the drop be taken into account, that the dropped side be shorter. (Or that a pad elevate the dropped shoulder.) But removing some length is not sufficient. It has to be removed up top, so that the rest of the coat lies against the body in parallel to the other side: the waist, button point and skirt are identical on each side. Only the shoulder is different.

I would add that a truly well balanced coat should hang nice and straight from the shoulders even when unbuttoned. It should almost close on its own, without the button. If it cuts away and needs the button to pull it together, the left-right balance is off. If it overlaps too much and needs the button to separate the fronts, the left-right balance is off

--Manton

[Guest]

Well, it's safe to say that I have a number of unbalanced coats but curiously by these definitions, I think that these coats were deliberately cut in this manner.

The Italians, and particularly the Neapolitans, seem to cut a coat which is a bit shorter in the back than the front.

SR, on the other hand, does indeed pay particular attention to getting the front and back lined up.

I have had issues as well with side to side balance as well but on this balance issue, I do think that both Italian and SR schools share a common view: obviously, the buttons need to line up, the neck needs to be snug and the two sides run parallel.

The amount of coat opening when left unbuttoned is interesting.

Again, I find that SR coat differs to the Italian; SR cuts a coat which opens only very little when unbuttoned.

On the other hand, the Italian cut allows the coat to open much more, and to button the coat, requires a good tug.

By these definitions, it seems to me that my Italian coats are generally unbalanced but I am not sure if they are "wrong" or the Italians simply do not look at balance the same way.

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[Guest]

The Italians, and particularly the Neapolitans, seem to cut a coat which is a bit shorter in the back than the front.

This is actually quite typical. I suppose I should have clarified this. The back balance is about making sure the contours are right, that the back of the coat follows the lines of your body and falls smoothly. That is largely accomplished up toward the top, in the shoulders and blades area. Once that is correct, the coat can be of almost any overall length, and the relative length at the bottom in front and back is an aesthetic judgement. As you note, one tradition prefers the front to be slightly longer than the back.

On the other hand, the Italian cut allows the coat to open much more, and to button the coat, requires a good tug.

Interesting. My SR experience is similar to yours. However, my suits from Frank Shattuck are more Italian, in that they are significantly closer to the body, as you describe your Italian suits. Yet when I put them on and don't button them, they still almost close by themselves. Oddly, on the hanger, they cut away significantly, so much so that they look badly unbalanced. But that is, I think, owing to their close, natural shoulder. When worn, they look perfectly balanced.

[Guest]

Well, I can say that you have a liberal view of the relative length issue between front and back of a coat as an aesthetic issue.

A well known tailor on SR took quite visceral exception to a Neapolitan coat I wore as I assaulted his shop with this Italian made coat, which, admittedly, is quite unbalanced, perhaps even in need of medication.

Yes, the Italians swing open when unbuttoned, swish and flutter, as one walks. This is considered a virtue.

In Italy, it is common to walk the streets with coat unbuttoned, displaying shirt, tie and belt. So all needs to be in order with these items.

Ofcourse, clothing serves one's style, particularly in Italy, so in the spirit of sprezzatura, coats are casually left open , to cool and express nonchalance, during the Summer heat.

I must say that SR seems to better succeed in fitting the neck collar, tension under the arms, and lay of the lapel down the chest, than the Italians.

They quickly pick up, and account for the peculiarties of my body - the dropped left shoulder, sway back, slightly rounded shoulders, protruding chest....stop. The Italians do not.

So the English probably make a better balanced coat than the Italians though not to say more beautiful.