The London Lounge

Should the points end under the coat lapel?
Most of my shirts are RTW and usually the points are exposed.
This is a pet peeve.
I suppose that in a bespoke shirt that the collar point length and spread can be cut so that the points end well under the coat lapel.
But this would require a very long collar point length ,much longer than what you will ever find in RTW, particularly with my coats which have quite a lot of shirt space exposed between the lapels.
You will see that in the Turnbull RTW collars that the outer edge of the leaf flares out; this design may help keep the leafs hidden under the coat collar…

But where do you want a shirts points to end when wearing a coat?

I think it is a matter of taste. I personally prefer the points to be covered by the lapel; it renders a more harmonious look, I find. It does require a sizable collar, which is not often seen in ready to wear clothing - especially under the current fashion regime. Yet another reason to go bespoke with your shirts, no?

There is also the matter of the shirt-coat relationship. In my experience, tailors will generally make up your coat to fit the shirt you are wearing, so if your shirts are not consistent in terms of fit or style, talk to him about it and figure out how to get the best general result.

uppercase wrote:Should the points end under the coat lapel?

Definitely yes...on a spread collar shirt. Straights, button-downs, etc. are another story.
If wearing a spread collar, I´m afraid that a gap between shirt and coat collars is a sign of lesser fit and not a matter of taste. At least not more or less than it is wearing your trousers with a gap high on your ankles. There´s a reason why spread collars have IMO a superior look than other collar shapes (smooth lines, tie space, flattering to the face, etc.) and part of it is lost if a gap is left open.
Also, you don´t need to bespeak shirts with a special sizable spread collar in order to reach all the way to your coat´s collar. It´s the other way around.
J.S. Groot is right when he says that a good tailor will always cut your coat to fit the shirt you wear. Even if your spread collar is not that substantial (I myself favor rather smallish ones that I can wear without overpowering a simple 4-in-hand) the tailor can cut a "crooked" (as opposed to "straight")jacket front and this will make the trick.

uppercase wrote:Should the points end under the coat lapel? [...] where do you want a shirts points to end when wearing a coat?

Uppercase, your question made me run to the folder where I collect the vintage photos that I use for inspiration for my commissions and to learn more about cloths. The only points I couldn't see were those of club collars Before WWII, the shirt points are visible in almost all pictures and fashion plates; most of the times collars are starched and have a high stand. I wouldn't expect modern shirts to be the same as those, but I find very interesting (at least from a social point of view) the fact that the fascination with the so called aural period of men clothing seems to be very selective. As an example, today heavier fabrics and 'drape' are well received while shirts and ties clearly follow more modern criteria. And this is the contradiction most fashion blogs are built upon.

When it comes to my shirts, I have them made with detachable collar, which allows great versatility. But even so, in general I like the collar to end where the waistcoat begins; no overlapping and no gaps (I learned this from those photos). This option gives much freedom in the choice of lapels and buttoning of the coat.

I wear spread collar shirts almost all the time and the collar points are covered by the lapel of the coat. This is my aesthetic preference.

My preference is to have the collar points hidden away behind the coat lapels.
Having said that, you pretty much only achieve that with a bespoke shirt.
And yes, the shirt maker and coat maker have to talk to each other…through you, the makers mutual client.
Apart from the technical consideration of cutting a longer (much) collar to ensure that points are tucked away, there is the primary issue of choosing the proper collar design for your face.
Everything is going on in that little triangle where shirt collar, tie and lapels all meet around your neck. Very easy to get wrong unless you instruct your shirt, coat and tie makers to cut a harmonious whole. And you understand what is becoming for your face.

I can't really wear a spread although it's probably the right shape to balance my long, narrow face; I just feel that a spread, while the points are often long enough to nestle under the coat lapel, appear too formal for the kind of sports coats I most often wear.
And rightly or wrongly , spreads make me feel a bit too contrived and fashion conscious.
A semi spread may be better. A straight point doesn't work.

But speaking of old style collars, I have seen some which are point, or maybe more accurately semi-point, yet the leaf length is so long that they hide behind the coat lapels.

I suppose that I have to really go consistently bespoke for shirts to get matters semi-right. Once I figure out the proper collar shape, not to go well with my coat, but rather to go well with my problematically shaped face.

(Still I do like the RTW $80- shirts from kamakura. (http://kamakurashirts.com/) which have the best soft button down collars and are great for casual and have a store in NYC nearby the other Ivy stalwarts in Madison Avenue).

Here's an example of a long collar point.